Rape

Bi0Hazard: In some ways I'd contest that. There may be psycho or physiological reasons for people not being able to stop a rape.

Not sure Aristotle's conception of democracy is necessarily the most relevant today.

admin: For what it's worth, I'm sick of this victim-blaming.

People need to take responsibility for what happens to them. Victim blaming should be embraced.

I know first hand what it's like, being told I deserved to be bullied in school because I came from a poor family, for example.

Every time I had a bully in my life, I stood up to them. Other people, they found ways to avoid bullies.

It isn't so much that you deserved to be bullied, but you were at fault for being bullied.

Usually people learn something from dealing with bullies when they are young, but the way you act makes it seem like you were totally submissive to those bullies.

The people who get bullied for prolonged periods of time are weak, unintelligent, or both.

The message people need to get is that rape is wrong and that people need to learn to control their impulses

How is rape wrong? To anyone who knows how not to get caught and is disconnected from the victim, has only beneficial means to be pursued through rape. There is a real reason rape is wrong, but I doubt you will recognize it, since you are not honest with yourself.

It is the active decision by somebody to impose their power on somebody else through sexual humiliation involving intercourse. That's all there is to it.

And the active decision of the victims each day to not try and avoid their rape from happening.

I personally know somebody who was raped despite not drinking, not staying alone with any individual (willingly anyway) while carrying a knife. And this person is American. Just saying.

Lying about rape is an American pastime, but I bet if you told me the full story, I could give you dozens of things that she did wrong. A lot of victims get raped by people they got close too, which is fault in itself.

admin: In some ways I'd contest that. There may be psycho or physiological reasons for people not being able to stop a rape.

If people are to be treated as equals, then those excuses are irrelevant.

Either someone with a psychological or physiolocial issue is to be expected to problem solve as well as the rest of us, or it needs to be accepted that they are lesser beings. Which is it?

Crow: Let me stop you just at the first bit because I think the premise needs to be addressed before we can continue the conversation. Specifically, that victim blaming should be embraced.

There's a big difference between acting a victim and being a victim. Although of course victims should stand up for themselves, that is not to say they are at fault for what happened to them! There is this strange assumption you have that anybody who has ever been victimized has ALLOWED themselves to be victimized and plainly that's incorrect.

There is no "real reason" about it. We discussed this on another thread and I'm not going to get into this. What concerns me is how you think you are entitled to shame anybody who deserves pity, simply BECAUSE they deserve pity. The only thing you seem to find pitiful it pity itself. There's nothing philosophical about it - I imagine you do it because you enjoy it. You LIKE shaming people.

Some poor sod has, in the past 24 hours, literally just experienced the unluckiest day of any person on this planet. And to add insult to injury, you'd be there to tell everyone not to care about them for the rest of their lives. In your mind it is their own fault they had such a terrible day, and their own responsibility to get over it.

Crow: That's like a fairtax argument. Sometimes "equal" means "equal RELATIVE to your current unequal position". Doesn't make them lesser beings just as poor people are not lesser beings because of their limited economic power.

admin: There's a big difference between acting a victim and being a victim.

Not saying there isn't.

Although of course victims should stand up for themselves, that is not to say they are at fault for what happened to them!

Yes it does. Creating liabilities produces responsibility, and responsibility makes one liable to fault.

There is this strange assumption you have that anybody who has ever been victimized has ALLOWED themselves to be victimized and plainly that's incorrect.

It is totally correct. Every victim could of made choices which could of led to them not being raped.

What concerns me is how you think you are entitled to shame anybody who deserves pity

No one deserves pity.

Whether I am entitled or not is irrelevant. I can shame people to my leisure, as long as I am not silenced.

And to add insult to injury, you'd be there to tell everyone not to care about them for the rest of their lives

Nope, not saying that.

In your mind it is their own fault they had such a terrible day, and their own responsibility to get over it.

It is partially their fault that it happened, and 100% their own prerogative and responsibility to get over it.

Crow: See, I feel this is ultimately where we differ. You have no empathy for others.

There's a word for that condition. Psychopathy.

Heck, I hope that if somebody robs your house, you won't blame the robber, but blame yourself for having inadequate locks or something. Of course you might, but the robbery is still the robbers responsibility, ultimately.

admin: You have no empathy for others.

How about you respond to the actual argument? You know, the one about choices, responsibility, liability, ect.

There's a word for that condition. Psychopathy.

It is called sociopathy, you clinkus.

Heck, I hope that if somebody robs your house, you won't blame the robber, but blame yourself for having inadequate locks or something. Of course you might, but the robbery is still the robbers responsibility, ultimately.

I have forgot to lock the doors on more than one occasion. You are as secure as you choose to be, which would make me and all victims of robbery partially responsible.

Crow: Sociopaths at least know that they *should* empathize with others. You're quite insistent that the only logical thing to do, when somebody is raped, is to give them a cold shoulder at best.

The argument just boils down to "I don't care about the feelings of others". If you care, then you wouldn't go the extra mile to insult basically every group that's had something unfortunate happen to them. It goes far beyond rape. Heck, if your next thread says Anne Frank deserved to die, well... I wouldn't put it past you. If you ever wonder why everyone disagrees with you and can't engage with your logic, it's that your premise of inverting pity is faulty.

You're quite insistent that the only logical thing to do, when somebody is raped, is to give them a cold shoulder at best.

Which is the best thing you can do. Rape victims want to be treated normally.

The argument just boils down to "I don't care about the feelings of others"

Nope, there is an actual basis. A basis which you are not responding to at all. Are you going to keep dodging around my central argument, or are you going to continue acting like a raging baby?

Heck, if your next thread says Anne Frank deserved to die, well... I wouldn't put it past you.

Not deserved, but partially at fault.

Crow: It is called sociopathy, you clinkus.
Are you admitting to being a sociopath?

Krazy: No,

Crow: Rape victims certainly don't want to be blamed for being raped. It's not "normal" to attack somebody for something they didn't do.

Please point out an actual basis that in no way relies on you blaming victims.

admin: Rape victims certainly don't want to be blamed for being raped.

Which is why I do not go to recent rape victims and start preaching the truth.

It's not "normal" to attack somebody for something they didn't do.

What is conformed and normal is staining society with corruption and lies. All I am saying is the truth, and you are making no attempts to actually argue.

Please point out an actual basis that in no way relies on you blaming victims.

I am victim-blaming, but there was an actual argument behind it.

Liability produces responsibility, and responsibility makes one liable to fault.
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This is a discussion site after all. Not a psychoanalyzation forum.

Can you stop acting like an infant now? Could you do that form me, Lars?

Crow: Rape victims want to be treated normally
Right. The normal thing to do is to comfort and support somebody when something tragic like that happens.

Krazy: Right. The normal thing to do is to comfort and support somebody when something tragic like that happens.

I absolutely agree that is the normal thing to do. I also believe it is the right thing to do in response to someone getting raped.

Crow: Meh, you went to an ex bullying victim about 30 minutes ago and blamed them. Don't see why you wouldn't do it to a rape victim.

Liability produces responsibility, and responsibility makes one liable to fault.
Let me rephrase this for you.
When you don't have something, it's your problem, and when it's your problem, it mean's I'm gonna blame you.
See what I mean? All you do is blame victims.

admin: That's not logic, BTW, that's just you wrapping up the ideology of psychopathy in slightly different words and accusing me of not responding to it.

admin: Meh, you went to an ex bullying victim about 30 minutes ago and blamed them. Don't see why you wouldn't do it to a rape victim.


Oh my god! You were bullied?

Get over it.

When you don't have something, it's your problem, and when it's your problem, it mean's I'm gonna blame you.


Not an acuarate rephrasing. Here is how I would rephrase it...

Everyday you make choices, and every choice you are responsible for making. Being responcible for your choices makes you partially responcible for what happens as a result of those choices. Therefore people are responsible for the events leading up to both good and bad, and it should be acknowledged that both the good and bad could be avoided.

See what I mean? All you do is blame victims.

I am blaming victims. I am arguing after all that victims are partially to blame. You seem to be mad that I hold a position, but are doing nothing to debate the logic of the position.

I actually do not care if you continue acting like an infant. Do what you have to do.