Rape

Here are a couple of questions to start a discussion.

- Why are rape victims told it isn't their fault? Seriously, not even in the slightest? Doesn't that sort of enable ease, and promote the illusion that rape isn't preventable?

- Why is rape universally considered worst than if somebody just gets their ass kicked? Both are motivated by demonstrating control, right? Isn't it true that even though there are cases of brutal rape, non-violent non-consensual sex is treated with a lot more pity than someone who gets their face completely done in?

- Is it worst to be raped than to be murdered? I have heard this more than once.

Crow: Why are rape victims told it isn't their fault?
Probably because it isn't.

Doesn't that sort of enable ease, and promote the illusion that rape isn't preventable?
Of course it's preventable. But men are about 50% stronger than women, so it's very difficult for them to prevent the rapist from continuing.

Why is rape universally considered worst than if somebody just gets their ass kicked?
Because rape is just worse.

Both are motivated by demonstrating control, right?
I thought people raped for the pleasure.

Isn't it true that even though there are cases of brutal rape, non-violent non-consensual sex is treated with a lot more pity than someone who gets their face completely done in?
Dunno.

Is it worst to be raped than to be murdered?
No. Who says that?

My answers are that rape victims are partially at fault, and should adopt the mindset that they are fully at fault. Rape is preventable, and pinning the responsibility on the rapists is only making the whole situation worst. Humans have the power to protect themselves, in more ways than one.

Rape is not any worst than getting your ass kicked. Both have the same motivations, which is to give control to the instigator, through the act of taking control from the victim. Besides the physical pain, which is temporary, the rest is all psychological. Therefore one person can get over it instantly, while another person can throw a pity party for the rest of their lives.

I believe the idea that being raped is worst than being murdered is nonsense. If I had to choose between getting my ass torn up for 10 minutes, or losing 40-60 years of life, I'd take the rape in a heartbeat. The people who say that they would rather die are pathetic. If it is a matter of pride and dignity, it would be lacking pride and dignity to choose death over temporary physical and psychological pain.

Krazy: Probably because it isn't.

Then how come the rate of rape victims who did not drink, carried a self defense weapon, and avoided isolation with other individuals after partying is less than 0 percent?

There are billions of choices made each day, and it is about time people own up to them.

Of course it's preventable. But men are about 50% stronger than women, so it's very difficult for them to prevent the rapist from continuing.

Preventing rape does not come down to arm wrestling.

Because rape is just worse.


2016 argument of the year

I thought people raped for the pleasure.

Synonymous.

All sexual attraction is based on having control or being controlled. Even relationships in which both parties treat each other as equals are founded on having mutual control over each other.

No. Who says that?

Mostly liberal women in college.

Ironically, telling women that rape is the worst thing that could ever happen to them simply makes them feel worse when it does happen.

Dassault Papillon: Yeah, a lot of unnecessary stigma has been created on rape.

Thje greatest fear of a rape victim is the humiliation.. They were completely dominated and lost all control over themselves. When everybody in a rape victim's life makes the situation out to be larger than life, that does not help the rape victim feel normal.

It makes the anti rape culture activists the biggest problem about rape culture.

Crow: Then how come the rate of rape victims who did not drink, carried a self defense weapon, and avoided isolation with other individuals after partying is less than 0 percent?
Less than 0 percent? Really?
The statistics are lower for those women because their smart. You don't put yourself in situations where you're more likely to get raped. But it's still the rapist's fault for raping.

Krazy: Okay, so you do acknowledge that a woman can increase their chances 100 fold of not getting raped?

It is just natural. Bad things happen to stupid people. Smart people are more likely to avoid bad things. Would you like to absolve all people who act stupidly from fault?

Crow: Okay, so you do acknowledge that a woman can increase their chances 100 fold of not getting raped?
Where did you get that number?

Would you like to absolve all people who act stupidly from fault?
That's a loaded question. If you left your car unlocked, that doesn't mean it's your fault if somebody stole it. The thief should be punished, not you. Same with the rapist.

Krazy: Where did you get that number?


From the history of rape cases in America.

That's a loaded question. If you left your car unlocked, that doesn't mean it's your fault if somebody stole it. The thief should be punished, not you. Same with the rapist.


Yes, it would be my fault.

Fault = Responsibility

Leaving a car unlocked would make me responsible for it getting stolen. Otherwise I would just be making excuses for acting stupidly.

Crow: Why are rape victims told it isn't their fault? Seriously, not even in the slightest? Doesn't that sort of enable ease, and promote the illusion that rape isn't preventable?

How could it be their fault? It would be good to arm yourself with some form of weapon or learn krav maga but there may be times where a man will attempt to rape.
Why is rape universally considered worst than if somebody just gets their ass kicked?
Probably because it is adultery.
Both are motivated by demonstrating control, right?
Yeah.
Isn't it true that even though there are cases of brutal rape, non-violent non-consensual sex is treated with a lot more pity than someone who gets their face completely done in?
I would think so.
Is it worst to be raped than to be murdered? I have heard this more than once.
No, your life is of highest importance.

People seem to rely more on the police protecting them than protecting themselves.

Bi0Hazard: How could it be their fault? It would be good to arm yourself with some form of weapon or learn krav maga but there may be times where a man will attempt to rape.

Because creating liabilities produces responsibility, and the existence of responsibility makes one accountable to fault.


People seem to rely more on the police protecting them than protecting themselves.

Yes, this is true. Often after a rape, the people who failed to provide protection get blamed by activists. What about the rape victims that failed to protect themselves?

Crow: Because creating liabilities produces responsibility, and the existence of responsibility makes one accountable to fault.
That is an interesting way to look at it. By looking at it that way, then rape victims would partially be at fault, but how can you blame them if many weapons in a country are illegal and the state promotes relying on police rather than protecting yourself?

Bi0Hazard: I don't believe possessing weapons is the only way to avoid rape.

The idea of someone getting dragged off the street by raw force and screwed in a dark alley is pretty rare.

Most "rape" is he said she said, not black and white. Other rape is using deception tactics, like getting a woman drunk or seldomly drugging. Things that can be easily avoided by someone with intelligence and self-respect.

Crow: For what it's worth, I'm sick of this victim-blaming. I know first hand what it's like, being told I deserved to be bullied in school because I came from a poor family, for example. It's not fun and doesn't help promote a healthy society. The message people need to get is that rape is wrong and that people need to learn to control their impulses, not unlike how you need to learn to control your personal attacks on site members.

Saying rape is not preventable is like saying murder is not preventable. It is certainly avoidable in that you can reduce your chances of being raped, but this is no obligation upon anybody because a) you can't get it down to zero, and b) people shouldn't be raping in the first place. There is no illusion about it, and a lot of very good sociological research into both the motivations for rape and the effects on victims. Rape is not the victim's "fault" under any circumstances. It is the active decision by somebody to impose their power on somebody else through sexual humiliation involving intercourse. That's all there is to it.

Rape is typically considered worse than minor assault because it involves a violation of bodily autonomy. However in most places, including my own, rape is considered equally bad to serious assault, simply because battery is a terrible crime also that should not be encouraged. Both can be motivated by control, indeed. I think most people would have more pity on a victim of violent rape than non-violent, but that is not to say that both aren't awful.

Definitely worse to be murdered, but again, both are awful.

Crow: I personally know somebody who was raped despite not drinking, not staying alone with any individual (willingly anyway) while carrying a knife. And this person is American. Just saying.

admin: I know first hand what it's like, being told I deserved to be bullied in school because I came from a poor family, for example.
Yeah, I hate it that we live in a world where the strong oppress the weak.
The message people need to get is that rape is wrong and that people need to learn to control their impulses, not unlike how you need to learn to control your personal attacks on site members.
Yeah, but wouldn't you agree that we live in a world where people will always do bad things, so it would be your responsibility to defend yourself and make the right decisions to prevent this stuff. Things will still happen, but we must accept that we live in a struggling world and take responsibility for ourselves. Humanity has always struggled, and always will.

Bi0Hazard: I don't know it need be oppression. In NZ we have a voting system, for example, that requires both minority and majority interests to be taken into account when determining parliament.

There are things we can do to prevent ourselves being attacked. There are also things we can do to prevent people from becoming attackers.
Victim blaming and media glorification of rapists is the worst possible response to that.

admin: The strong oppressing the weak is something that happens a lot due to human greed and corruption. Actually Greek philosopher Aristotle classified governments into three categories and considered democracy to be a corrupt rule of the majority. Politics becomes a money game in corporations interests. Candidates are largely controlled by the lobbyists. I wouldn't consider democracy to be fair, but I see your proud of your own nation and I don't think there is anything really wrong with it. People have killed for the benefit of themselves, this is a world of the strong ruling. Nations are powerful, if we threaten their existence, there is no fighting them, we will die.

admin: Rape would be an example of the strong oppressing the weak.