Land of the free

sea_shell: I disagree. Apparently England is considered a country by constitution, but doesn't have a legislature?
As is Wales a country. I actually believe there are several nations that affirm to "constituent countries".
Mallard's law applies well. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.

Wyoming has a constitution, legislature, flag, education system, and is granted sovereignty.
Therefore they are countries. I also believe the Iowa territory legallized women's suffrage in 1970.

And the US actually legalized women's suffrage pretty early, relevant to other nations.
Despite that, I'm not giving kudo's to anyone here. 1890 was way to late for anyone to be proud of.
I think you misunderstand how the United States works though.
Women's suffrage was legalized in most states between 1914 and 1918.

I was reading up on it, and apparently women's suffrage was abandoned by the Republican party to pursue black rights.
A better trade off IMO, although ignorance was still strong.

Blackflag: I don't see the point in spending too much time learning about a system like the USA one, I'd rather look at systems our own country can aspire to. But I did live in a US territory and was "educated' under the US educational system for four years so I had a few things float in during that time. A country must be recognised by other outside parties as sovereign to be a country.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a like to people who have never been on a farm, it could still be a goose.

sea_shell: That's kind of getting into cognitive reality, but that is a complicated theme.
You really can't dispute facts. A duck is a duck whether 60% of people say its a goose.
A state is sovereign whether or not other people think it is.

A state can regulate commerce and diplomacy with other nations, IE, sovereign.
Lately, I haven't been able to find much differences between the states and the European Union.

Quick Question: How could you of lived in a territory? The last territories were dissolved (Alaska and Hawaii) in the 1950's.

Which state did you live in?

Blackflag: No state, a US territory. And I'm not old enough for it to h a be been Hawaii or Alaska. Although I have been to Hawaii a few times and loved it. Hurricane and all.

sea_shell: State? We don't have any territories.
Just commonwealths.

Well, I guess the commonwealths could be considered territories.
If you're referring to Guam, Puerto Rico, or our other Island nations, then I must say most of them aren't fully americanized.
Even Hawaii is vastly different from the mainland.

Can I also ask how you received an "American education"
Education is ran by the individual states, and if you are in a territory, then the education isn't controlled much by the federal congress.

Blackflag: I went to a private American school. And American Samoa isn't just considered an American territory, it clearly is one. And after living there and visiting the USA multiple times over multiple decades I can tell you, it's erythromycin Americanised.
As an aside, can you recognise the contradiction in your statements? You claim that the states are all different, going as far as calling an individual state a country, but then imply that territories aren't American enough for me to have some experience of America. How many American territories have you visited yourself to claim you understand their culture?
Okay I'd better get to work now...

Blackflag: I love how you argue that because you define words slightly differently from most people, that makes you right in all statements concerning those words.

Blackflag: Thanks Google.

Power: "the ability or capacity to do something or act in a particular way." boom.
Freedom: "the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants."
"the state of not being imprisoned or enslaved."
"the state of not being subject to or affected by (something undesirable)."
Liberty: "the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's behaviour or political views."
"a right or privilege, especially a statutory one."

Looks like I was right on all those definitions. Power DOES have something to do with ability. Freedom DOES have something to do with power. And liberty DOES have something to do with freedom.

sea_shell: I've been to Puerto Rico shortly on my cruises through the carribean. I've also been to the American Virgin Islands.
I know they're not Americanized because I had to do a research project on one myself. Yes, you are correct about American Samoa being a territory, I said myself two posts above. The problem is that they don't have some basic traits to American culture, and yes, America has a very basic culture that is existent in all the states, well, maybe not hawaii (that place is weird).

The American Samoa isn't a territory in the same sense that our original ones were. The other 37 states that didn't declare independence, were all territories at one point in time. They administered to our laws on territorial status. They were also all incorporated, which none of our territories are today. The American Samoa, is if anything, a client state of the United States. It is independent in the sense that it can start up their own government,elect its own officials, and manage themselves.

It isn't sovereign because it is controlled by the United States, and all decisions they make go through the US congress.
An american education would be at an American school, which follows American commmon core, and Federal standards.
I can assure you that none exist in the American Samoa. If it were incorporated, then the amendments and constitution would apply there.
For example, slavery is illegal in the United States, but if the Samoan congress were to vote to pass slavery, then the United States could legalized it without violating the constitutition. That's because by federal law, Puerto Rico, Samoa, AVI, the Mariana Islands, and Guam aren't apart of the United States, IE, they are listed as unincorporated.

So yes, I wouldn't consider being in the American Samoa, the same as being in the United States. They don't pay our federal taxes, adhere to our constitution, or follow US regulations. They are client states. Guam has been subject to a lot of Americanization, and I would say it isn't that far off from Hawaii, but there is still some ways to go. Interesting enough, there was actually a proposal to combine all of Micronesia, Guam, Mariana Islands, and the Samoa into our 51st state, but the proposal only resided on the Federal States of Micronesia to stay in the Union.

The American Samoa isn't going to be incorporated into the states anytime soon, therefore, isn't actually an American entity. It is a client state, as simple as that.

@Admin - Exactly. Power is the ABILLITY or CAPACITY to do something. Freedom is the ability to act on will. Freedom does not require capacity.
The philisophical definition is the "abillity to act on unconstrained will". Meaning that if you have the will to do something, you are free to do it.
Your argument that power is the right word is making a fallacy that freedom requires sucess.

I had this debate, and won, with someone on debate.org. We were arguing the exact same thing. He stated that a man with a broken leg isn't free to climb a mountain.
I argued that he was free to climb the mountain, he would just fail, IE, freedom can't be taken or given.
You are literally free to do anything you want, and while you may fail or succeed, your country can't take away that freedom.

A point that enlightenment philosophers tried to stress, but given the evolution of the term, hasn't been fully realized.
New Zealand is the country with the most liberty. Not the country with the most freedom.
If you have the will, then you are free to do something.

Canada also had a similar debate regarding its northern territories.
Dozens of first nation men sued the Canadian government, because they weren't granted constitutional rights afforded to Canadians.
Intresting enough, Canada won all the suits, because these territories were unincorporated at one point in time.
Unincorporation is basically a legal term saying you're not with apart of us.

We had the same cases with Puerto Ricans.
They were eventually given citizenship, but the supreme court ruled that certain rights on the mainland didn't apply in Puerto Virgo.
Hell, American Samoans aren't even US citizens, are they?

*side conversation* I've been interested in the Taiwan statehood movement though. Especially after that militia took over the regional administration.
There was actually a non-official referendum, where 55% of Americans preferred statehood to rejoining China. That 55% included blank votes.
They justify it with the treaty of Japanese surrender that shows the United States legally owns Taiwan.

I find the movement silly, and I doubt Taiwan would ever become a US protectorate again.
At one point in time, they were a very strong unofficial ally, but a state just seems silly.
Although the polls were extremely striking as far as results. I couldn't fathom such high numbers.

Blackflag: Edit: 55% of Taiwan citizens

Blackflag: If it was a cruise like our one around the Pacific where you stop in a couple of times and don't actually spend any significant time it doesn't count in understanding a culture. Neither does doing a project. It was an American school, I can assure YOU that. I'm basing that assurance on the fact that all of the teachers were American, it was a private American school and about 80% of the students were American, living in AS for up to four years with their family.
What are you basing your assurance on?
They do have the bonus of having a rich and unique indigenous history and culture that is celebrated but after living there, I know the American culture was saturated throughout.

sea_shell: American Samoa isn't incorporated into the United States. I don't know if you're talking about primary school or secondary education. If you went to high school in the American Samoa, then that school isn't following American common core. If it was a college, then there is a small likelihood that a mainland college has stake in the American Samoa, but I highly doubt that.

You seemed to have fell through my point about incorporation. The people of the American Samoa are unincorporated. Whereas the old territories like Hawaii, Alaska, California, ect., were incorporated, USVI and Puerto Rico are not. Incorporation essentially means that the nation follows our federal laws and constitutions, while also recieving representation in congress. Samoans are not American citizens. Samoans don't follow the American constitution. Samoans don't adhere to the US congress (technically we approve all laws t.).

You can't compare Samoa, to let's say, Pennsylvania. America Samoa does have a good degree of American culture, seen in the way they style their government, and the sports they play, but for the most part, they are an isolated culture 1000's of miles away from the mainland. As for the basis I have, I do have knowledge on the situation. What you are doing is equivaloent to "you're not x so you can't have an opinion on y". Or "you don't live in y so you have no right to talk about z".

I live in the mainland, and have been to just about every corner of the United States.
You lived in the American Samoa, and no, I'm not sure how long.
The core of your fallacy is revealed. For some reason it is okay for you to dismiss my case because I haven't been to Samoa, little beknownst that your case also resides on extreme knowledge of the United States. Sure, you've been here a couple times, but I have lived my entire life here. I have researched our former territories in-depth, so it is silly to say I know nothing of the Americanization there.

America has a level of adaptation. We have diverse cultures, so I agree with most of what you're saying.
Samoa could be as american as hawaii, which I never disagreed with you on.
My point, is that American Samoa isn't incorporated in the United States.

Its special status is unincorporated, IE, whatever education you received, wasn't a federally regulated one.
Wasn't that what we were actually talking about. I don't know how we sidetracked unto the americanization of Samoa, but the initial premise is a fact.
Unless you are in the mainland, or an incorporated territory of the United States, then you aren't receiving an American education.

The legal definition of an unincorporated territory is an insular political community associated with the United States .
I don't know how clear I can make it. The American Samoa is a client state, as I said a couple posts above.
It isn't American, but associated with America. As are all unincorporated territories.

Blackflag: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh and you have a picture of Yingluck, a free women who you are calling for the freedom of xD