Code Cracking

nzlockie: Scratch that, right to stick to my logic, just chose the wrong option. Not a question, but a quote.

"FEAR IS MY ALLY"

"DARTH MAUL"

I'll admit to getting misled with your original hint - which totally serves me right since I always tell myself to ignore hints early on as they can send you down the wrong path.

Your original hint said that you were going to follow the pattern of the shift cipher above, which happened to be a ROT6 pattern. I see now that all you were really saying was that you were going to substitute letters for other letters - which to be honest is not really a pattern you needed to explain.
I assumed that the pattern you were referring to was the shift function - which is why I was looking for a relationship between the cipher alphabet and the original one. This is why I decided you needed to be using multiple alphabets within each code, something which also matched the fact that you said this code was significantly harder.

If I was going to nit-pick, you also said that there was no "glitch" and I'd argue that since a glitch is anything that breaks the pattern, having a single letter unencrypted is a glitch. An intentional one, but still. Again, this reinforced my theory of multiple alphabets within the one code.

HOWEVER! You can take ALL of the above in the spirit of which it was intended. Just a grumpy guy feeling a little foolish that he couldn't see the wood for the trees.
Nice code, I would have liked to see if we could have gotten there with a longer text. I feel pretty confident we would have, as frequency counts and grammatical rules would have come into stronger play.

nzlockie:



Correct.Good Job!

I was surprised you didn't get it earlier since you were on track about it being a quote with an author. I was just not going to give a hint so blatant. I was not going to make things too difficult either with a shift function or have multiple alphabets for one line of code. Multiple alphabets on one line alone would be extremely difficult to figure out with a short code. If I was going to do a longer text, I would not be using a letter substitution so simple, it would of been time consuming but not difficult.

Tophatdoc: Except that my guess actually fits with all those clues... I'm actually starting to think that the substitution cipher is a red herring.

admin: Let me prove something here

IXNA PS ES NJJS
PIAEL TIZG

FEAR IS MY ALLY
DARTH MAUL

THAT IS MY ALLY
SMART CODE

If letters can stand for up to 2 letters and a letter in the bottom code is repeated - regardless of whether that character is encrypted or not - then between the two alphabets a single letter can stand for up to four letters. Therefore so long as no character appears more than twice in each code, every character can be uniquely interpreted. The only exception is the S in line 1 which nzlockie guessed. Therefore it cannot be correctly solved as a substitution cipher.

"Darth Maul" is not words in English, it's a name. At that, it's one with a repeated character. The same code could also be Dalai Lama and it would be equally probable, for example (perhaps it helps that I didn't know the quote but I wanted to explain the problem with the code as a logic problem). "Fear" is also a word that is unlikely here under similar logic. According to several programs I just ran, "Chad is my ally - Dalai Lama" is more likely than your quote because ally is defined as "a state formally cooperating with another for a military or other purpose", Chad is a state, and the Dalai Lama is the leader of a state in exile. But I still maintain that every code cracking system in the world would not attempt to decipher names in a code this short.

I reckon we should make a rule from now on that all codes should use such a method of encryption as to allow the solver to re-encrypt any plain text they want using the same encryption.
This means that anyone using a substitution cipher as above where there is no discernible pattern to how each plain text letter was mapped to a cipher text letter would need to ensure that every letter of the alphabet was used in their code text.

I'd never heard of the quote before either, once Doc confirmed that "ALLY was correct, I googled quotes from tv and movies containing "is my ally" on a hunch that he'd taken it popular culture. This hunch was from the fact that he's a Futurist and uses Paptimus Scirocco, a relatively obscure Anime character as his profile pic.

admin: Nzlockie actually noticed that I had to use different alphabets for the top line and the bottom line. I told him this was true because he asked. This was not intended to be easily decrypted. If it was, you would of gotten the correct answer within a short period of time with relative ease. I intentionally made it so that one would have to guess what the bottom meant and guess that the "s" was not encrypted. Nzlockie had quite a number of valid guesses, especially when he noticed that the bottom could of been an author and the code could of been a quote.

Observe closely. I only said one letter was not encrypted. It could not of been "that" because I said there was only two alphabets used one for the top and the bottom. Two "T's" would not of fit the code for the following reasons:
The correct answer: I=F X=E N=A A=R

The "I" and the "A" have different substitutes

This is what you said originally : I=T X=H N=A A=T

"I" and "A" could not mean different things in the top code because I said there was only two alphabets used, one for the top and a different for the bottom. Same goes for your mentioning the "Dalai Lama." That would require multiple alphabets, not just one alphabet per line as I hinted and stated a few times(at least to nzlockie and once in this thread).

"Chad is my ally" does not make sense considering it is irrelevant to the Dalai Lama. I stated a few times that once one understood one of the codes they could decipher the other. I don't see how the Dalai Lama has anything to do with a state in Africa so I don't see how one would arrive at that conclusion by a simple guess.


NOTE: I also gave this to a different Edeb8er in a PM long before I I placed it here and he got it within three days. Probably because he told me he used a cryptogram which could of been used.

Tophatdoc: "I only said one letter was not encrypted."

THAT
IXNA

T is not I
H is not X
N is not A
A is not T

So it fits. Every letter is different.

"The "I" and the "A" have different substitutes"

And how were we supposed to know that? The alternative, "this is my code", fits equally well and does not use two T's. The N was a very weak guess since we'd already established a single letter can code for two.

""I" and "A" could not mean different things in the top code because I said there was only two alphabets used"

And why do you suppose an alphabet must have each letter in it exactly once? If one letter can code for two things, why can't two letters code for one thing?

"Same goes for your mentioning the "Dalai Lama." That would require multiple alphabets"

No it wouldn't. Your bottom line has only one repeat and this satisfies it. I maintain smart code is the most likely interpretation of the bottom line. If you had said that each alphabet does not have two letters coding for one thing that would have helped a lot but still not excluded most of the possibilities.

"Chad is my ally"

You'd be surprised how much the Dalai Lama concerns himself with random states. I'd much sooner guess this than Darth Maul, that's for sure, because it makes sense as a sentence, whereas Darth Maul's line requires a bit of interpretation.

Actually, this is frustrating. I'll give you a code to illustrate my point. EXACTLY the same rules as your code. Kinda added extra serial killer ness to it for flavor. Notice how hard it is to decrypt.

USUKT OP HETD IKO!

ABCD EF

admin: Oh wait sorry, has a minor error in it in the first line. Let me fix that:

ILIKE TO SIRK PUJL
ABCD EF

(that should give you an extra hint!)

admin: "T is not I
H is not X
N is not A
A is not T

So it fits. Every letter is different."

It seems you may have forgotten that you already knew which one was already not encrypted because you used the non encrypted letter in the guess you made as well.

"That iS my ally"-Notice the first "S" which you even used when making your guess is not encrypted.
"IXNA PS ES NJJS"

"And how were we supposed to know that? The alternative, "this is my code", fits equally well and does not use two T's. The N was a very weak guess since we'd already established a single letter can code for two."

It was implied in this thread with the original pattern offered as an example previously long before you made your guess. That is how I knew that none of you utilized the first pattern as an example to go off of. Two letters do not mean two different things in the example below at all(which I even offered before the code). There is not any evidence to arrive at the idea that there would of been a single letter that could of been used for two in any thing I said. That was you guys making more work for yourselves.
"ZU HO UD CUZ ZU HO ZSGZ AE ZSO JKOEZAUC"
"TO BE OR NOT TO BE THAT IS THE QUESTION"

"And why do you suppose an alphabet must have each letter in it exactly once? If one letter can code for two things, why can't two letters code for one thing?"

The example, I used did not utilize two letters for one word therefore is no evidence to make the claim that " two letters code for one thing."

"No it wouldn't. Your bottom line has only one repeat and this satisfies it. I maintain smart code is the most likely interpretation of the bottom line. If you had said that each alphabet does not have two letters coding for one thing that would have helped a lot but still not excluded most of the possibilities."

How does "smart code" make any sense? I said if one guessed one code correctly they would automatically get the other code. I don't see how "smart code" would follow "that is my ally." The two are not complimentary enough to be to go together with ease. Also smart code would not of matched the pattern. The "I" has two different meanings in your guess aside from the fact it does not make any sense.

You said: "P=S I=M A=A E=R L=T T=C I=O Z=D G=E"

"You'd be surprised how much the Dalai Lama concerns himself with random states. I'd much sooner guess this than Darth Maul, that's for sure, because it makes sense as a sentence, whereas Darth Maul's line requires a bit of interpretation."

When did the Dalai Lama say this? Also how are the Dalai Lama and Chad complimentary since one would have to go with the other.

Tophatdoc: Perhaps you should ignore my response about the non encrypted letter because I misunderstood what you said. I addressed the reasoning behind the two "T's" in the example.

Tophatdoc: First of all, I know you said one letter was not encrypted and that it was a substitution cipher. What you don't seem to realize is that substitution ciphers don't always have to be a scrambled alphabet. I began looking at it like in your first example, but then realized after there was an unencrypted letter that there could not be a simple substitution involved as per my initial guess. You confirming much of nzlockie's post completely threw me off and made me have to start from scratch. I therefore presumed the initial clue must have been a red herring, and that there were additional tricks involved. So I discarded the notion of a simple substitution and started looking for other possibilities, such as letters for punctuation marks, single letters that stood for two, etc. Compared to most of what I looked in to, the notion that two letters in the ciphertext have the same meaning is very common in codes generally.

The real issue isn't with the letters but the particle. My assumption was that the first word had to be a subject to relate to the second. I did not believe you would cipher-encode a name that short because I knew it would not be calculable, and I didn't think you'd make us research a quote's author. As I said, I'd discarded your initial example for good reason. My assumption that it had to be a subject was the evidence of a doubled T. There was more evidence of this than there was evidence of an unscrambled letter. nzlockie just made a super-lucky guess. I'll grant the evidence wasn't very strong, but there was some for and none against. I am only interested in the most probable solution.

As for "smart code", I found about 200 probable phrases that fitted via a little dictionary lookup program I hacked together. Of those "smart code" stood out as the closest fit. Of course as a quote, I'm sure many people have said "that is my ally". I realize ally can be used in a broad sense too. You're writing a difficult code, and your message communicates how useful your code is. So far as I'm concerned, that fits. "Bored cows" would have fit with the letters (among many others) but been less likely on the relevance front. As I said, the presence of a double meaning in the first alphabet gives rise to the belief that there will be one in the second, and there's only one letter that could possibly be a double meaning.

Now I know you're going to say I'm overcomplicating a simple code. What I'm saying is that your code was anything but. As your book itself states right after that example, any cipher of less than 30 characters (and both of yours are) will typically have multiple good solutions. I maintain that mine is a good solution. And that's PRESUMING there are no other tricks in the code of the type you added. That's why that cipher did not use multiple alphabets. Like I said, I copied your exact encryption system (simple substitution cipher, spaces trusted, one letter in top cipher not encrypted, and it's a quote) and was able to get:

ILIKE TO SIRK PUJL
ABCD EF

Since I posted that, I myself have found several alternative solutions that actually fit completely. The point was that your encryption system would be completely impractical.

OK OK I think we've established how everyone feels about the previous code!

Back on task, here's my latest one for your cracking pleasure. I've made it a nice long one to make it quick and easy!

YVU WVFY AFX SUKAJX JDFJMWPXV
PKIYAML FBZ EYPLBUS KHGE
HZU WMNY FYL UTAQIZ MY ATV UGEL
AE LTXYK XVJWLZ JJYEL
TFD AALQIMSESK YL QXLYJ AM ZYUE
OMP UQRAJR ZBILYW OUJ JJTDE
RUB PLXTVKXZ XZAREL RZZFXZ UE
DGMO SVUREF EDPJBUS AHUL

1) True text has been written left to right, top to bottom.
2) Spaces can be trusted.
3) This cipher WILL require the use of an encryption key to decipher it. The encryption key is: 1662764746
4) The encryption key has been encrypted using the same algorithm I used in the earlier code. If you haven't cracked it yet, then it IS possible to crack the above text without a key - but be warned, that SHOULD prove harder than decoding the actual key itself.

nzlockie: For clarity's sake I should add: The encryption key has been encoded using the same algorithm I used earlier, BUT the hints I gave for that previous code may or may not apply to this one.
I will say that if you can decode the previous message than this encryption key will take you no time at all.

nzlockie: The one code I couldn't crack earlier! Alright, this'll be a challenge.

admin: haha - yeah I thought you could use some incentive. I felt like you were pretty much there last time so it shouldn't take long.

Just trying to get some wins back on the board for everyone so I've left this one pretty straight.

BTW feel free to drop another code on this thread, I wouldn't mind working on something.

nzlockie: KDRIPBVLFTYEQQSLHEXOLKYSJZUKCCUVVPCQJROUVOYRRTYBURJKCELHPIVHPYREBKKIEXVKOXTYRGXZEVZQPIEXAAXDRRCZPHZJHEYEFZKEKWITFIHDJQGKYEDRUEUPLNRMPOJFZRQIKSIPALASQITSZMSFUTILEO

There's a key to this code. Three words, no spaces, all three words rhyme. First is an animal worth half an as. Second is a weapon. Third is a vegetable.

admin: The spelling of "as" is deliberate by the way.