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Societal convention does not demand one to say “excuse me” when in a cubicle within a public restroom.

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nzlockienzlockie (PRO)
Welcome to another Edeb8! Thank you for your time and careful consideration of one of the most pressing issues in our society today, and thank you to my opponent for his willingness to accept an obviously losing position!

The definitions have already been set in the rules for this debate. Everybody passes gas. Whether it be a Burpie or a Fartie, everybody does it. The issue before us is WHEN and WHERE is it acceptable to do so?
My side will contend that the Restroom is the most appropriate place for this, and so therefore no apology should be needed for letting rip there.

I fart. You fart. The Queen farts. Everybody farts. It's natural. It has health benefits. We all know this. So why do we feel the need to apologise?

This convention has arisen because even though it IS natural, by making an unexpected noise, especially one accompanied by a perturbing scent - we feel we have made a comfortable room a little less comfortable for our fellow man. For that we apologise. 
I'm a fan of this policy. 

However - since it IS a natural process - logically there MUST be a safe space for us to go. Equally logically, that space should be the toilet. 

1. It's already associated with other distasteful bodily functions.
2. Nobody EXPECTS a toilet to be a comfortable space.
3. Social convention dictates that Public Toilets are spaces where you do not acknowledge your fellow man beyond a friendly head flick. You get in and get out as quickly as possible. When we're in there, we all pretend we are alone.

It's my contention that an apology should only be expected when you can physically see a person. This could be during the fart, or after the fart - that moment when they walk into the cloud, and then look at you. Both of these moments COULD occur within the confines of the public restroom, and in that scenario, an apology WOULD be warranted. 

But if you are inside a cubicle, without eye contact with anyone - not even knowing if anyone is around; I say RELEASE! 
Vote PRO!

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-09-28 04:38:10
| Speak Round
Phos HalasPhos Halas (CON)
Greetings! Thank you to my opponent for allowing me this debate, let's get to it. 

Hello all and welcome, I have to admit, I am a bit shaken because of this debate. The mere fact that we are questioning  this shows the moral state of our society, that not saying "excuse me" could even be up for debate scares me. Unfortunately, my opponent has gone down a very slippery slope, I can see years from now society will no longer wear bibs at dinner or be using salad forks to eat desert. I for one do not want to see that day. 

My opponent has made some audacious claims, my opponent wants us to believe that as long as there is no eye contact or as long as the passer is enclosed in a cubicle, passing gas without an excuse me is perfectly acceptable.

Let me give you some scientific facts. 

A typical round of gas contains the following:

skatole (a by-product of meat digestion)
indole (a by-product of meat digestion)
methanethiol (a sulfur compound)
dimethyl sulfide (a sulfur compound)
hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg odor, flammable)
volatile amines

 My opponent seems to think that releasing methane, sulfur, and other respiratory attacking agents in the atmosphere around other humans is completely acceptable so long as they cannot see you, unfortunately this line of thinking rests upon the presupposition that because these actions are out of sight they are not required to be forgiven or excused. 

Well, not being visible is not relevant, because these gases are still being released outside of the cubicle, and therefore anyone releasing these gases MUST be held responsible. 

In other words, we all must breathe the same shared space, therefore anyone contributing respiratory attacking agents, regardless of location or societal norms, is morally accountable to offer an apology to the most basic HUMAN RIGHT, the right to breathe!

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-09-28 09:18:33
| Speak Round
nzlockienzlockie (PRO)
I thank my opponent for his previous round, we agree on several things, namely that science is awesome, the chemical make up of a typical bottom burp, and most importantly, that Australia sucks. 

However there are a couple of points, I’d like to make. 

Firstly, it is HE who is guilty of a Slippery Slope fallacy. My point is simply in relation to people passing gas and has nothing to do with bibs or salad forks. 

Secondly, there is nothing particularly audacious about this. 
Passing of gas is a medical necessity. You can find plenty of evidence for this here, here and here
I don’t expect PRO to contest this, as it’s common knowledge. 
So why do we attach this societal shame to it? 
Why should I demand an apology from someone who is only doing what is natural and necessary to ensure good health? Would I rather they hold it in and cause permanent harm to themselves?

So as a society we are simply designating the restroom as the “safe space” to let go. 
No apology needed, and an acceptance that in the same way that we shouldn’t expect to eat in there or perform open heart surgery in there, we also shouldn’t expect it to smell pristine. 
If one is face to face with someone when the burp happens, then by all means, a sheepish look would be fine, but ultimately even this is not needed. The bathroom is the most appropriate indoor location for this activity to take place. 

If we agree that farts and burps are necessary,
If the bathroom IS the most appropriate indoor location for these to take place,
If they don’t cause actual harm to anyone anyway,
WHY would we demand an apology?!

As a society I think we can be adult enough to set stupid offences aside. Instead a dirty look in the bathroom, give them a high five!

Vote PRO - express yourself!

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-10-01 09:44:05
| Speak Round
Phos HalasPhos Halas (CON)
Madness nzlockie....madness!

First it starts with a simple "no excuse me" and then, nzlockie will have us going out in public with no top hat. I strongly contest that it is my opponent who is not just going down a slippery slope, but is being rocketed down!

Yes, my opponent has offered some true statements. The process of gas passing is indeed a natural biological process. And yes, the bathroom is the safe space to do so. However, let us look at a similar analogy to what my opponent is arguing. 

Eating is a natural process, the pub is a safe place to do so, therefore walking up to any chap at the pub and eating his shepherd's pie right in the middle of him chowing down is therefore socially acceptable. 


Or how about

Snoring is a natural process, a bed is a safe place to do so, therefore no apology needed to anyone else in the house after a night of snoring. My original argument still stands, that we all have to share the same breathing air, and therefore, regardless of location, eye contact, or societal constructs, we should indeed apologize for subjecting our fellow man to the chemicals that we produce. 

I strongly suggest sending my opponent down to Australia for a few weeks, my opponent will be begging for manners again!

Don't let my opponent's earth shattering liberalism stop us from being gentlemen! Vote con!

A thank you to my opponent for his well thought out response.

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-10-01 22:19:04
| Speak Round
nzlockienzlockie (PRO)
Thanks again to my opponent for his latest round. Let’s wrap this up shall we?
In this final round, I’ll summarise my position and then explain we I’ve won this debate.

The question before you is simple:
You are in a public restroom, alone in a cubicle. You fart or you burp. It makes a noise or a smell. 
In this situation, currently most people would loudly apologise... but SHOULD THIS BE THE CONVENTION?

My side has argued that not only is the releasing of gas natural, but it is also a medical necessity to prevent serious bodily harm. CON has not contested these facts, in fact he has supported them by elaborating on the exact chemical makeup of these gases.
Whilst these gases are incredibly harmful built up in the human body, they are relatively benign once expelled. 

We support the notion of apologising for the faux pas of soiling a pleasant environment such as a living room. We even support the notion of apologising within the confines of a bathroom IF you acknowledge another person is in there; although in that instance we would argue that such an apology would not be necessary or expected. 

We asked the question, WHY is it expected to apologise for a life-saving, perfectly normal and natural process, in an environment where nobody enters anticipating pleasant sounds or smells?
Why do we insist on shaming ourselves for something so normal?

It makes no sense, which is why my opponent neglected to answer the question. 

So the solution is simple.  There should be no social requirement for an apology when burping or farting in the public restroom.  

My argument was realistic and sound. My opponent was constantly prone to exaggeration, claiming that this simple convention would eventually lead to anarchy and a loss of Shepherds Pie.

In fact my opponent didn't actually give ANY defense for his position at all. 

The decision is yours,  live in shame of something natural or let's give ourselves a way out! 

Vote PRO! 

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-10-05 10:14:44
| Speak Round
Phos HalasPhos Halas (CON)
A thank you to my opponent as always. Let us wrap up this debate with some observations. 

1. My original contention, that because we as human beings must share the same breathing space, apologizing for passing gas is proper and should be socially encouraged regardless of location or visibility, was not truly and satisfactorily addressed. 

2. The chemical makeup of gas is such that farting in and of itself is not a benevolent act, regardless of it being a natural process.

3. The fact that natural processes such as eating or snoring can also be taken to socially unacceptable extremes, needs to be kept in mind as well.

Ultimately, if someone passes gas in a public restroom, and does not say excuse me, it is obviously not the end of the world. However, given the topic of this debate and the material I had to work with, I think I have formulated a sufficient argument against the resolution. 

Thank you all! This debate was enjoyable!

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-10-08 13:37:31
| Speak Round

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Previous Judgments

2018-10-08 17:17:26
sivasubJudge: sivasub
Win awarded to: Phos Halas

Went a bit off the track.. yet I vote for Phosphate Halas.. There's a saying that ' You have the right to swing your walking stick as long as the bottom of your stick doesn't hit the back of the guy walking in front' . The cubicle is you space! I accept! But the point is when you start releasing gases into the area, which doesn't stay in your cubicle (I guess you know that). And moreover nobody is gonna die saying an 'excuse me' to the other or by apologising. If you think you become lesser a person by apologising to another, then man! You've already lost the debate. And please do not come up with points like .. It's my right. Cheers guys and I congratulate Phos for maintaining this healthy.
3 users rated this judgement as a vote bomb
3 comments on this judgement
Its very rare that I ever give out a vote bomb, but this deserved it. I didn't make any of those points.
Very happy to upgrade it if the vote gets made more relevant thi this actual debate!
Posted 2018-10-08 19:39:40
Phos HalasPhos Halas
sivasub, I appreciate your vote, but in fairness nzlockie didn't argue that apologizing made one less of a person. That's just not what he said. I'm not sure if votes are reversible but perhaps you can reread the debate and then casta vote?
Posted 2018-10-08 22:26:25
Phos HalasPhos Halas
Also, I know it's not a huge deal, but people seem to think "phos" is short for phosphate, that's actually not at all what my name means.
Posted 2018-10-08 22:33:26

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You are alone in a cubicle within a public restroom. You release gas in an audible manner. Others may hear you.
PRO will contend that a failure to say “excuse me” in this circumstance should not be frowned upon by society, as the public restroom is an appropriate location for this activity.

“Societal Convention” will refer to the unspoken rules of common courtesy present in most western societies, including those of the US, UK, Canada and NZ. (Not Australia though, because those guys are animals. Obviously anything goes there!)

All others words carry their standard dictionary definitions, with the context being the situation described in these rules.
The gaseous discharge could be from the top or the bottom, audible and/or olfactible, but it is accepted that it be “involuntary”.
(Quotations because, how would you tell?)