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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 13 2016 9:23 AM
admin: The amount technology improves doesn't make labor any less necessary for survival. You may have programmed machines do much of the production for you, but there is always work in your life. I don't see an economy with machines doing everything for us as desirable, but believe what you want. You don't care for the work ethic?
As for charity, I view it as a good thing that people aren't forced to give. Voluntary charity is from the heart, forced charity isn't. Welfare is for the fat cats who don't work but instead live off of their "right" to free money.
admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 9:27 AM
Bi0Hazard: Human work ethic loses value as more efficient modes of production come along. Over time the economy becomes more and more knowledge-based, because humans are inefficient physically. And in the long term, even knowledge can be replaced as a factor of production. Then any marginal work done by humans would actually reduce productivity. It's a long way off but it's coming.

I don't exactly see many wealthy people on welfare.
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 13 2016 10:07 AM
admin: Machines sure help us, but I don't see this as a reason to replace human work. We are what is behind these machines after all.
I believe the work ethic to be good for society. Work is part of a purpose in our lives, without work, we have empty lives and lost important values.
Also, how do you know it will be that way? I see humans as being more efficient.
An economy with robots would still require work from humans, since we created robots and perform maintenance on them. Also, there are tons of jobs, most of them will still need to be filled with humans unless we have machines dominating the world.

Corporate welfare, but by fat cats, I mean anyone living on welfare, not exclusively wealthy people.
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admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 10:11 AM
Bi0Hazard: At some point it is inefficient for even us to perform that maintenance. People said the same about horses before they were usurped by cars. As the horse was replaced and people found lazier forms of transport, so can the human.
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 13 2016 10:20 AM
admin: That is a false equivalency. Cars need as much and even more work than a horse. People will always find a need for labor. A world where robots do the work and have other robots working on those machines is a world where robots take over us.
admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 10:29 AM
Bi0Hazard: Actually not true. Horses needed more labor, between shoeing, grooming, stabling, veterinarians, breeding, cleaning the streets of horse poo etc etc. With Ford's assembly line, cars were mass produced by few people doing specialized tasks. And over time those tasks have been increasingly replaced by machines.

I don't see why people should be concerned. Less scarcity means happier and healthier lives.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 13 2016 10:33 AM
Automobiles are such a terrible example. Can guarantee you more jobs were created in the auto industry than in the stable master trade.

Michigan is the home of the auto industry, and America flourished on the automobile. . Look at all the jobs it has created here, and in Europe and Asia.

When people imagine the working class core, their minds go straight to big three auto.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 13 2016 10:37 AM
Lol, all those things admin listed are done by one person. We call that person a stable master, and even big stables had only a few people working them.

The automobile industry in the United States alone is connected to over 8 million jobs.
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 13 2016 10:39 AM
admin: Cars are machinery requiring maintenance as well. Either way, cars require labor.
I don't have a problem with machines increasing productivity, but replacing human labor isn't gonna happen unless our kind is replaced by self controlled robots.
Working also is important for us. Why would you want robots destroying our values? Are you materialist?
admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 10:39 AM
Crow: Mine doesn't but Michigan certainly profited, true.

I used to live in an area called Karaka which bred horses. And that's an example of a place that went downhill at the same time.

Econometrics will prove me right. Jobs were lost overall, not created.

Same in the modern age with computers. Sure, lots of computer jobs exist now. And millions of writing, calculating etc jobs lost.
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admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 10:40 AM
Crow: No, they were not done by one person. Read 1700s newspapers.
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admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 10:42 AM
Bi0Hazard: Working for work's sake is not a value. Working for profit is. Try rolling a rock up a hill endlessly - the point of work is achievement / accomplishment.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 13 2016 10:49 AM
Bi0Hazard: Working also is important for us. Why would you want robots destroying our values? Are you materialist?

The most material, self-obsessed, an attention seeking person I know.

Well, him and the rest of the SJW posers.
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 13 2016 10:51 AM
admin: Work ethic, the importance of working for what you need, instead of expecting it for free.
Econometrics will prove me right. Jobs were lost overall, not created.
Your views on economics altogether are flawed.
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admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 10:54 AM
Bi0Hazard: Yet people get most of what they have for free. Language, maths, social skills etc ... you didn't invent those things or work for them. They were handed down by past generations. And that's a good thing.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 13 2016 11:08 AM
admin: For one, you are making the mistake of implying that humans are born with an innate knowledge of those things. They learn them.

Either that, or you are making the assumption that Zer0 supports public schooling.

If public schooling were legitimate, it isn't like there are not expectations that individuals are supposed to fulfill. Nothing is free, per say.
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admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 11:18 AM
Crow: Somebody teaches them without them earning it. When parents teach children to talk, they're not usually making a financial transaction, but they are making a huge economic one.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 13 2016 12:29 PM
admin: Somebody teaches them without them earning it. When parents teach children to talk, they're not usually making a financial transaction, but they are making a huge economic one.

Not all work involves monetary rewards.

Big difference between sporadic communal cooperation and the systematically organized form of wealth redistribution.
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admin
By admin | Aug 13 2016 12:33 PM
Crow: I believe that cooperation should be a right that all people guarantee. If somebody's suffering, everyone helps them out.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 13 2016 12:35 PM
admin: I believe that cooperation should be a right that all people guarantee.

The only way to guarantee cooperation is by forcing it. Even that is not a guarantee.

Beyond that, why should I care what you believe?
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