NZockie : " The bible is very clear that God knows our hearts better than we do, and that he knows our thoughts before we think them. "
I will show you a verse that Before Thinking ( whatever it is ) came into our Mind it started in the Heart. In Matthew 15:19
" For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. "
You are very correct that God knows our Heart better than we do, 1 John 3:20 " whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything." But FYI Mate the Bible inform us before God knew it, He will go for a process- " to SEARCH ( in Hebrew chaqa meaning " to explore, be found out, to examined thoroughly ). He has that kind of POWER to Search the Heart and to know what is in our HEART, we don't have that Power according to Jeremiah 17:9-10. " The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?, I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." Therefore if the doings of your Heart is Good the Fruit is Good, but If it is Bad or Wicked then the Fruit will be Bad and Curse. And God gave those Blessings ( Good ) and Punishment ( Bad ) according to his ways. That is Justice. And finally Eternal Flame or Punishment ( which is Bad for them that done wickedly and choose to rebel to God ). This is not " JUST a FIRE " Mate. But the Promise of God is Eternal Life to those who choose to believe Him and Obey Him wholeheartedly. The astronaut need eternal life in able to get to the very far distance of UNIVERSE.
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Nzlockie: " 4. "Here" doesn't mean Earth. "Here" means, "the place where I am". God doesn't need a place to formed in order to exist. Before there was any physical places, God existed. I can't describe the location for you, because there is no reference point other than where God was. "
In my point of view, the question that I laid " Where is God when He not yet created the Heavens and the Earth? " Is the toughest question I encountered in the Bible. And I did ask that to many Pastors and Biblical Laymen. I found no answer, unfortunately.
But when I heard somebody, about the answer I am overwhelm. Try to Read Proverbs 8:1-31. And you will find something that is very Interesting that nobody notice. The clue is " the Wisdom of God " is the true witness of Creations and before the Creations which is the Beginning.
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Just another set of question for a particular topic; To those still Interested in Knowing of God in the Bible.
* Who made the Lake the Fire ?
* Is it really existed?
* Where is that Place?
* For whom it was made?
* What is the Intentions of the Maker?
* Why is it ETERNAL?
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I read that passage and it still doesn't give a location for where God was before creation.
And it's not going to either. It's not that it's a tough question, it's more that you're asking for a location of something at a time where there were no locations.
Locations only work when there is something to reference them to. "Behind the tree", "under the dog", "in my room".
Before creation, there are no objects to reference. Doesn't make God's existence any more or less likely though.
BTW: This passage is one of the most misquoted texts in the Bible. It's one of the ones that JW's use to say that Jesus is not God since he was a created being. Their inference is that the "wisdom" spoken of here is Jesus Christ. Other interpretations have it as being the Holy Spirit. The truth is far more simple, it's wisdom.
This is poetry and the author is using personification to bring wisdom to life. Don't fall into the trap of reading something into this text that's not there...
Well, unfortunately you didn't noticed the passage. I am so sorry. So that's it. End of the line. That is correct Mate, it is Jesus Christ that was spoken here. The faithful witness of the CREATIONS according to Revelation 3:14, " And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God ". And He is the Wisdom of God according to Paul, 1 Corinthians 1:24 " But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. "
BTW, I don't believe JW's doctrine, they have a lot of prophecies that didn't come true, and a lot of Doctrine by Charles Russell ( founder ) that was flawed. Anyway for the sake of the Proverbs Chapter 8' I will try to share some points of view to think.
I am not asking of " before creations " or I might say " before the works of old " or let me say " before the beginning of creations " Because at that time ( BEFORE ) the only information that the Bible provided is, we can read that in Psalm 90:2, that HE is " FROM EVERLASTING ", " FROM ETERNITY " ( No beginning and no end ). We don't have an Idea for that. And it is God glory to keep it secret ( Proverbs 25:2 ) for awhile. And we are not allowed to think too much according to Paul in Roman 12:3. I say FROM EVERLASTING or ETERNAL no beginning and no end to be specific not the Everlasting that has a beginning ( just making sure ). Now, go back to the question " WHERE is HE, when there was no HEAVENS and EARTH yet created? ". That is a valid question because God gave us information, He need not a place for He will be able to EXIST, because if that the case, the LOGIC is like, before God created the HUMAN, Men need a place to dwell, like a Fetus that should need womb to dwell in for a development. So, meaning, not unto GOD, we cannot apply this kind of LOGIC, because HE is ETERNAL and everything that existed ( creation ) it's because of HIM. Everything that Moses said " IT WAS GOOD " comes from HIM.
So GOD has a dwelling place, before the Heavens it was, and before the EARTH it was. And HE show that to SOLOMON in his poetry or proverbs. Also since CHRIST is the witness of creations, he showed that into the APOSTLES. and others SERVANTS.
In PROVERBS 8, it is the WISDOM that talk, it is not SOLOMON, he is just an instrument, to write it down. And it is not just WISDOM that other think, NO!, BIG NO!, because this WISDOM " was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, ever the EARTH was." And this WISDOM was " brought forth " when there was no water and fountain ( because GOD's Wisdom itself will never brought forth, it is at eased with HIM ). So by reading the context THIS WISDOM is with GOD ( FATHER ), " I was there ", yes HE was there!. Witnessing HOW his Father created Everything. The WISDOM is " by HIM and with HIM, BEFORE ( in hebrew PANIYM meaning presence, person, before the face ) HIM, HE was the Wisdom, the SON ( Gods' delighted or please daily: Matthew 3:17 ), the POWER, the WORD ( was with GOD ). I remember a Movie that tells a Father was delighted to his Son.
And BTW I will share to you as well, that the Beginning is not what Moses in His books GENESIS. But the Beginning that was taught by Christ. CLUE!
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Addmin: how can you preclude other gods?
It is because the Bible say they are not true God! Period.
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Sovi: " That is a command "
I think we are on the same page.
I just want to ask do you understand what I am trying to point out, not to forced to follow?
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