The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

They say that this God who made the Heavens and the Earth and even to all the members of this site is something that is injustice, unfair and didn't know what is he's doing. To be specific almost everybody that aware of the story of Abraham when his God commanded him to sacrifice Isaac is something that is, some say Divine Evil, selfish and cruel Oh no! Goes along with a Law that God wants to kill all the enemy of the Israelite to the point that even the children has to suffer the consequence. That is Injustice they say ( Umm, I don't think so. ). In addition what else might you want to say to HIM?

An addition to the thread;


Question arise from many points of view who are reading the Bible:

1. What explanation do you think that this God is existing?
2. Is he Changing in all aspects?
3. Why he allowed those sufferings in the earth if he is a God of Love?
4. Where is he when Heavens and the earth are not yet created?
5. Does he know our time and explain the things that discovered by Men, why not put it on a record in every generations?
6. Is he Omnipotent, Omniscience and Omnipresent?
7. If he is Powerful why he cannot do something to change the Human from Evil to Good?
8. Does he have Faith as well?
9. Who made him?
10. What is his Plan to our planet Earth and Human race?

If you have an answer though, post it! I'd like to hear it from you.

Additional text for the purpose to make this thread life get longer and wont expired.

olive 2: 1. Creation makes more sense if there's a creator.
2. No, just the opposite. He is unchanging.
3a. Pointless to ask why.
3b. Some "suffering" is a direct result of our sin. God is not responsible for that, we are.
3c. "Suffering" is a relative term. The world doesn't revolve around me.
3d. Because He loves us.
4. Here.
5. Because Faith is stronger than sight.
6. Yes.
7. He can and He has.
8. No.
9. Nobody.
10. Read Revelation. (Spoiler alert)

nzlockie: Thanks Mate: This is just a few glimpse from me.


1. Very well said.
2. a.Good that is written in Malachi 3:6. "He change not"
b.Next question to be specific. " is he change his Mind?"
3.Still a valid question and you got a correct answer from the Bible.

Suffering according to Bible is a consequence of one's action, whether it be good or bad. Christ suffer because he did a right thing. And God allowed that. So suffering is one of God's justice move. Remember there will come a time that eternal suffering will take place. Still overall it is God's Love to those He Loved.
4. "Here" means Earth. My question is Where is he when he not yet made the Earth and Heavens as well.
5. You got my point.
additional wisdom. Angels have faith as well even though they seeing the face of God, according to James 2:19.
So faith comes from hearing, feeling, seeing, etc.
6. Check this verses:

Omnipotent God? : Titus 1:2
Omnscient God? : Jeremiah 19:5
Omnipresent God? : Matthew 6:9

Note: Where in the Bible that says that God is Omniscient, Omnipresent and Omnipotent?

7. Yes, you are right, He can but it depends to the person he wanted to change. Because of the freewill he empowered to humankind, he is not allowed to tamper this assigned power unless Human will decided to subordinate themselves to Him. That is the exception.
8. Check this out: Romans 3:3..... The Faith of God.
9. Correct. absolutely none. He is the Creator.
10. Not only Apocalypse but the whole Bible.

olive 2: What if you're wrong?

admin: I am sure, that I am right. My basis is the Word of God. And He will not be wrong. He is the God of the Truth. At the end of the Day, all that oppose Him will proven WRONG. Come judgment day!

olive 2: 1. The fact that the world exists
2. He changes as the world changes
3. Sin is the dissolution of god, not the act of god himself. Suffering is said intentional warping.
4. Everything that was before
5. I'm not sure what you are asking
6. No, No, and Yes
7. Because God is still a component in the universe, and he is subject to its rules.
8. Faith that he exists?
9. No one made him. He was always present.
10. Nature cannot make plans

Christianity can be summarized into two sects. Those who believe god is personal, or a living entity, and those who believe god is absolute, or an embodiment of the universe. You are one who believes god is personal, or a deity who encompasses human characteristics. In this regard, God has a body, a mind, and even a soul. Many newer churches use biblical evidence to prove god is absolute.

The questions you asked only arise when Christians believe in a personal god. If you understand the bible, there is almost no evidence contributing to the idea of a personal god, despite so many people still believing god is personal. It was actually first interpreted by the major churches to be like the following.

Holy Trinity
{God: The Universe itself
{Jesus: The Physical Manifestation of God
{Holy Spirit: The proof of god, or the link between Jesus and God

If you accept God as being absolute, which is the conclusion the majority of educated Christian philosophers reach, you will find yourself with a lot less questions on Christianity.

olive 2: Yeah, but that's not answering the question. "I am right" isn't really an answer to "I am wrong".

Blackflag: Interesting how both you and @nzlockie came to the same conclusion on qn1 - God exists because the world exists (more or less).

admin: I do not think NZlockie and me share the same views. NZlockie believes in a god who created the universe.
That is the toughest question for both atheists and the religious. For you it is who created the universe . For NZlockie it is who created god.

The only answer that makes sense is that the universe was always there, but at most it is a theory.

Blackflag: I don't think that's the only answer that makes sense. Also, I don't think who created the universe an important question. I would answer "nobody".

But what's interesting is definitely that you both formulated your answers to qn 1 around the blind watchmaker argument, just generally.

admin: You're right, the watchmaker theory is my main "proof" for God. I see order and design, I assume there's a designer.

I understand that most people will dispute it as a proof since they believe there to be alternative explanations for creation. However, I accept that "supernatural" exists and therefore, could be a viable explanation. IF I believe that supernatural COULD be a viable explanation, (something that most people don't accept) then I find it to be the simplest and most logical explanation for some of the strange things I see in Nature.

For the Christians reading this thread, my biblical source for this belief is from Romans 1:20 - Creation is enough to condemn a man, but not enough to save him.

Blackflag: I don't find that a tough question at all. I have no problem believing in something that I can't process, thus I have no problem believing that God exists outside of Time.

He doesn't have a beginning, therefore nobody needed to create Him.

admin: I don't think that's the only answer that makes sense
Okay, what other answers make sense. I too said the universe was always there.

nzlockie: I don't find that a tough question at all. I have no problem believing in something that I can't process, thus I have no problem believing that God exists outside of Time.
If it is not a tough question, then how come you immediately say you cannot comprehend the answer.

olive 2: 2b. No, God doesn't change His mind. (Num 23:19)
3. Hmmm. I suspect we actually differ on this point. First of all I don't believe that God "allows" anything. I believe that He is the ultimate cause of everything. I get this from a number of verses, but mostly from Lam 3:28 and the entire book of Job.
Secondly, I don't believe that "bad" is really an adjective that can be attributed objectively to an event or a situation. Something is only "bad" or "suffering" in the eye of the beholder. For example, a Bush Fire can be "Bad" because it kills lots of trees, animals and people. On the other hand, it can be "Good" because it stimulates new growth and clears away debris.
The Fire itself is clearly not good OR bad, it's just a fire.
The bible IS full of examples where God uses events or situations as a punishment for sin, so if we got terminal cancer or something, we might well ask ourselves whether it is God punishing us for our sin - but to ASSUME that it MUST be a punishment because we think it's "bad"... is foolish.
Does the fact that a parent causes pain to their child as a form of discipline mean that they love them any less? Of course not. To the child, it may make no sense, but the parent understands more than the child and knows that pain has a purpose, and that purpose is good.

The Bible tells me that God loves us. I find absolutely no contradiction in the fact that He causes "bad" things to happen to us.

4. "Here" doesn't mean Earth. "Here" means, "the place where I am". God doesn't need a place to formed in order to exist. Before there was any physical places, God existed. I can't describe the location for you, because there is no reference point other than where God was.

5. Everything has Faith unless they are the one pulling the strings. The Angels may not need Faith to believe that God exists, but they still need Faith that He is who He says He is, and that He is able to do the things He's promised, so yes, they also have Faith.

6. a) No contradiction. God can't sin. Sin is not a positive, it's not a thing you do, it's a thing you don't do. It's what happens when you DON'T do the right thing. God can't do things that defy His very nature. That would make Him not God. He can't be Holy if He sins. People try to say this simply by saying that God has the power to sin, but chooses not to. It's an imperfect way of describing it, but I guess it's easier for some people to understand.
6. b) Good verse -but sorry still no contradiction here. God's omniscience is firmly established in scripture, (Job 37:16, Ps 147:5, 1John 3:19,20 etc etc) so therefore this verse can't be disputing that. The context actually gives us the clue. This verse is saying that the actions of the People of Judah are completely sinful. As such, God has NO part in them. He is pointing out that there is nothing of Him in their actions, not even the smallest thought in His mind.
6 c) Don't get this reference. God in Heaven? Surely you're not suggesting that because He is Heaven, he can't be somewhere else at the same time? If I am in New Zealand, does saying that I'm in my office preclude me from being in my house? And just because I'm in my House, does that mean I can't also be in Hastings?
If God is actually Omni-present it means He's everywhere; does the fact that He is in Heaven mean that He can't also be on Earth?
There's a better verse for disproving God's Omni-presence, see if you can find it!

7. No exception. Can God change a Bad person to Good? Yes He can. You mustn't confuse the definitions of the words, "can" and "will". Also, this question would be better if you used different words than "Good" and "Bad". I'm not sure I'm fully understanding you there, based on your answer.

8. Something lost in translation here I think. "Faithfulness" is not the same as "Faith". God is Faithful, which means that He will do what He said He will do - but He doesn't have Faith. You can only have faith if you don't know something, and God knows everything - therefore it's not Faith.

Blackflag: Haha because NOT understanding something is the easiest thing in the world! I do it all the time, there's nothing hard about that at all.

If you find it tough, it's just because you have a hard time dealing with the fact that somethings are unknowable.

The sceptic comes from a place where all things are theoretically knowable, therefore the harder it is to know something, the tougher that thing is.
I come from a place where I know that some things are unknowable, in the literal sense of the word. Therefore, once I identify something as unknowable, it ceases to become a tough question.

And thanks to watching too much sci-fi, I don't even have that much problem imagining an image of something existing outside of time anyway. The tough part is not accepting it, it's explaining it to someone else, since there's nothing you can point to as a frame of reference.

Haha because NOT understanding something is the easiest thing in the world! I do it all the time, there's nothing hard about that at all.

If you find it tough, it's just because you have a hard time dealing with the fact that somethings are unknowable.
Again, you are telling me your answer to the question is that you do not know the correct answer.
That does not make the answer easier to obtain, just easier to ignore. And ignoring the answer is ignorance.

Are you promoting a lifestyle of blissful ignorance, because God claims the final pursuit is one of wisdom?

Blackflag: There's a subtle difference here that I think you're missing.

I'm not just saying I don't know the answer... I'm saying that the answer is unknowable.

Incomprehensible would actually be a better word to use, because I do actually KNOW the answer. It's not the knowing, it's the comprehending that's the part that the human mind can't process.
Think, "man who has never seen the ocean knowing what the ocean is".