Liberalism Defined.

Blackflag: I disagree. I think migration to New Zealand has been too high, particularly in the last 20 years. Particularly since the people coming here are rich people, which has caused a massive housing bubble in our biggest city and kinda left behind all the rest of the country.

I would say New Zealand's "founding fathers" - the Greys and the Georges, or the Vogels and the Jules of the world - were far smarter than those of any other colonial power. Our speciality has always been primary goods and tourism, and that's a great niche that we've developed probably more than any other country I'd say. If we had 15 million people right now, it would not be sustainable.

admin: If we had 15 million people right now, it would not be sustainable
Really? You don't think New Zealand is fertile enough to feed a population of 15 million?

Blackflag: Sure, but then we wouldn't be an empty country. And that's our main selling point. There's much more to sustainability than just food security. I'm particularly concerned right now about pollution, conservation, land scarcity, property market inflation due to excessive demand, etc. I'd be happy if we can sustain our current exports AS IS. We face real challenges right now.

admin: Hmm, okay. Are you saying that as time advances you wouldn't want an increase in population? What if pollution and conservation were taken care of , because I understand what it is like to see your country overtaken by factories and housing? Also, while population will increase the amount of imports businesses take in, the increase in work force and consumer spending within your own country would allow New Zealand to start up a lot of new lucrative industries which you guys currently have no stake in. I mean, your entire economy is based off of exporting natural minerals, lifestock, and timber. THAT is bad for the environment.

Blackflag: Not true. Our economy is based on:
> Rich bastards coming here and buying up large amounts of land in one particular city creating a vast property bubble
> Tourism
> Agricultural products, PARTICULARLY milk products

Our timber industry is fairly modest ever since we stopped exporting ancient trees, and our mines have a tendency to blow up so we leave that to Australia.

Of the three:
1. Not helpful for the environment
2. Usually good
3. Bad, but not as bad as in most countries (we don't farm particularly intensively)

What kind of a lucrative industry do you think is worth starting up here?

Agricultural products, PARTICULARLY milk products
Yeah, I said lifestock. Tourism is probably a pretty big business as well, but it is definitely true that your country mainly exports timber and natural minerals.

What kind of a lucrative industry do you think is worth starting up here?
Auto industry, Arms Industry (so you can stop taking Britain's shit), Film industry, you name it. C

Blackflag: Lifestock exports means selling sheep and cows etc. We do that too, but not to the same extent.

Film industry - well, we already have the biggest one in the Pacific by value.
Auto industry - no competitive advantage. High cost of building here, high cost of labour, no resources etc. Besides, it tends to create slums.
Arms industry - same problem, but besides... you know my views on this. If anything I think our history of being peaceful has been helpful.

admin: I know your views on the arms industry, but Australia and New Zealand are the only two developed nations which almost exclusively license their equipment from other countries. Even creating indigenous rifles, armor, and pistols for your national guard would be an improvement over licensing guns from Austria and Britain.

Blackflag: We have a national guard? Since when?

admin: I assumed most countries had some form of reserve force

Blackflag: Oh, our reserves? Lol... I'd be surprised if they even have enough guns for them.

admin: But liberalism hurts freedom, and equality hurts individual liberty and isn't something even desirable in a meritocracy.