WODC: which sites to invite?

Hey folks,

Please post the names of debate sites you'd like me to reach out to this year! Maybe I've missed some.

admin: try debate.com ... just let them know that over here you can't be called a goat shagging child killer (as point number one) and infracted by the mods for reporting it (as point number two). True story ... and there are people that are fed up there are do not know where else to go.

gree0232: http://debate.com/

admin: you mean this site?

admin: I think its the DDO site others have already referred to.

I think its safe to say there is no moderation there, and when it does show up ... its so clumsy and haphazard ... there is no point in pretending its rules based. Others have already stated that this is an issue on the site, and indeed, I found this site precisely because someone sent me PM's and told me about it. I've watched a few others leave already, and after the latest stunt ... I will never go back.

Long short - combat veteran and father.

One guy in particular, decides its a great idea to spend months following me around calling me an insane mercenary goat shagging child killer. (No joke). Reports to moderation when without answer. When they finally did get a response, this is the short version mind you.

Troll: "You are child killing maniac"

Reported - no response. Moderation contacts me and tells me this is a valid non-personal statement. No action will be taken.

Troll: "You are abusing people!! I hate you." (now spread over a dozen posts in several threads)

Me: (In several threads mind you while reporting the accusations), who exactly am I abusing and how? (Mod response, calling you abusive is just a reference to what you are writing, even though the troll cannot point to what you are writing as abusive - he saying YOU are abusive, but he is not saying YOU are abusive, see?) I did not and told them so and why.

Troll: .... you are just abusing people and I hate you! (Also reported).

Troll: .... why didn't you respond to my first instance of calling you child killer again?

Because its not worth responding to, how about you try making a comment valid to the topic?

Troll: That the kind of dodge we would expect from a child killing coward!!! (Also reported - NOW its actually a violation see ... please don;t ask me to explain how).

Heh stud, no one want to talk to an imbecile who just sits and throws insults.

Moderator issues a ban to me ... for calling the troll an imbecile. All of the previous stuff was 'equivalent'. The ban was unilateral, the attempt to appeal quashed, and a statement posted publicly that was a flat out lie about the situation. Subsequent discussion indicates that reports to moderation resulted in the troll being turned into a social experiment. His 'friends' were enlisted dot try to aid him, and simply became enablers of what is, in over ten years of activity on debate forums, by far the worst troll I have ever encountered, as that type of behavior spread throughout the forum. I watched one new member after another leave, and ... well, long of short, the worst troll was enabled by some of the worst moderation I have ever encountered. I get that its a tough job, but if one is so unable to they cannot tell the difference between someone following someone around and rabidly accusing people of heinous criminal acts (the behavior was not specific to me), and someone saying "leave me the hell alone troll!" ... then perhaps moderation is not what they are intended for?

Truth be told, the site admin is pretty strong for the 'heated' emotions cases. But that assumes that otherwise rational people are getting caught up in the moment and just need a professional ref. That is not what prolific trolls are, and no amount of reasoning with them will get that to change - as months of coaching, talking, and doing everything but actually enforcing the standards made pointedly clear. When someone has 12,000 posts, with nary a single quality post, over half the posts are laced with unprovoked personal attacks and rabid flame bait, and you wind up blaming the victim? Well, that dude tore DDO apart. He'll be back.

The lead admin, from juggle llc, is reviewing my case (an appeal did eventually make it through), but after that ... I will never go back to that site.

Others are equally frustrated with the uneven, unexplainable, unfathomable, moderation that has allowed the worst collection of trolls to congregate on that site.

There are some really really good posters on the forum, but, in all honesty, I spent 90% of time having to publicly beat back false allegations and personal attacks and could barely get in a descent discussion. With the failure of moderation, any valid points in a discussion, or even just agreement to disagree simply became ... fodder for more personal attacks. Which, it turns out the moderation team was going absolutely nothing about, even as they were telling us, publicly and privately, "Don't worry, we're here to enforce the rules."

Yep, they are supposed to be there for exactly that reason. They were simply not doing it. And as you see above, they won't.

So they get to keep a prolific troll whose CONSTANT (as in thousands) of contributions is to call people goat shagging child killers (or whatever personal information he can glean and use to attack you personally). That is what their mod chose, and few are happy with choices like this being made over and over again.

There be gems in the crap though, and a few are worth extricating from that. Some strong, professional and very mature people, like ethang5 (who is a missionary in Africa) who has been left being called something similar to a ape screwing deviant. Like myself he publicly wondered if there even was a moderation team there.

Apparently, there to enforce the great big sign that says, "Don't mess with the trolls!"

Only it doesn't mean what you think it means, it means let them abuse you at will.

gree0232: Oh! I used to be on that site! I didn't like the mods there either. We competed against them in last years WODC, so they'll definitely be back.

I was also displeased with the moderation, but for far more heinous reasons. The moderator is very biased towards his friends, and constantly shows double standards. I've seen him blatantly lie in the intrests of protecting his credibility. A lot of our membership consists of people who found edeb8 to be more comfortable then DDO.

I don't agree with how the site's moderated either. It's nothing personal against the moderator though, and I've made it clear privately many of the reasons.

Nothing I can do to affect that, so I cut short all my reasons directly to him and will do so here as well.

admin: I will happily help take them down ... that is if you'd rather have a amazingly handsome, and able assistant .... as opposed to a minion that spits at people and calls them monkey rapers? DDO feels that later is a better aid ;-)

gree0232: lol, a member from DDO beat us last year. I still think we won because DDO judges are terrible.

Wylted: I had the same opinion, but our actions define our character, and when you watch a guy turn into a sniveling debutante and then openly lie in your face? Its hard not to let that effect your opinion of them as a person.

I got it, mods have a very tough job. I try not to waste their time, but ... some people are not cut out to be mods.

Simple question - do you believe it is necessary to accuse people (not just me mind you) of SERIOUS criminal offenses (like being a rapist for example) to have a discussion about a topic?

Well, the moderator there not only cannot concede a point even that obvious (and banned by his own TOS and explanation of them), he refuses to enforce the rule. Its the the then lying about both in my face and publicly that was really beyond the pale IMHO. A mod with an open integrity issue? That is a problem.

Sorry just venting ... really I'd rather someone took a gander at my Russia post ... I think its kinda funny ;-) (But with a serious note too ... kinda Zoolanderish).

Blackflag: Well, look at the source - enough said ;-) Apple doesn't fall far from the tree as they say ;-)

I'm not going to engage in personal attacks against the mod there. I understand your points though. I am still a member of that site and enjoy using it occasionally though.

Wylted: I do not think gree is attacking the mod, as much as he's saying the mod is not cut out for his line of work. Through all this ranting, he never really used a direct insult at the DDO moderator.

Blackflag: Okay, I know.

Blackflag: Its a fair assessment. I think I am just reporting the facts as I see them, but they are pretty damning. The evidence has already been laid out to the mods superiors. They will do as they will. Without being personally involved, I concede it comes off like an attack.

I will say the actions as reported are 100% true. If they come off as an attack? I apologize. Its meant as an explanation. Nothing more. Again, concede that it can be viewed differently. No harm.

gree0232: Ha, juggle probably forgot they owned DDO. Good luck with that!

Blackflag: Why you hatin' on Airmax, man?

Do tell what happened.

Dassault Papillon: One day I will tell my story in full... one day...

Blackflag: Actually, I'm having a conversation with juggle about the incident as a matter of appeal. They are a for profit company, and they have certain incentive's not have a portion of the portfolio openly accusing honorable people of rape and combat veterans of being mercenary for hire, goat shagging, child murderers. Its not just destructive to the process of discussion, its detrimental to the bottom line.

That their mod, who the assure me is NOT a juggle employee, seems to bear that reality out. A site admin is not a God. However much our power removes us from the consequences of extremely poor behavior, eventually it arrives ... like when it starts effecting the bottom line of the organization you are working for.

Just ask Brigadier General no more Sinclair.