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Views on Abortion

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Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 12:30 PM
Crow: Disagree? Make a counter-argument. It really isn't that hard.

Like I've said, I'm on my phone at the moment, once I get onto my laptop I'll dig up some stats from one of my old debates on DDO and form a counter argument.
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Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 12:32 PM
Crow: I never argued that it would.

Yet you still refer to punishment as foolish?
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Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 12:33 PM
Crow: Also there are no crimes in an anarchic society, so right from the gecko you are establishing a false premise.
You're nitpicking at irrelevant points. You know what I mean by crimes (murder, infanticide, rape, etc.).
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 28 2016 12:37 PM
Famousdebater: Yes. Retribution is foolish.

It is only useful when done systematically in order to condition greater security, but at the cost of freedom and humanity.
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Dassault Papillon
By Dassault Papillon | Aug 28 2016 12:40 PM
Famousdebater: First, some clarification:
I define abortion as the deliberate miscarriage of a pregnancy, which means either causing the body to reject the fetus/embryo/zygote or directly harming the fetus/embryo/zygote.
I define pregnancy as beginning at the fertilisation of a sperm and an egg to form a zygote.

I believe that abortion should be a federal offense punishable by no less than 5 years in prison in all states and territories of the United States of America.
With this in mind, I am okay with any pill or rubber implement that prevents fertilisation from occurring, and I do not include such measures in my definition of abortion. If anything, the government should subsidise birth control so that your average poor dude can afford it. Furthermore, "safe sex" education should be mandatory in all public schools across the country. Also, the government should pay the medical bills of pregnant women and lessen the bureaucratic red tape surrounding adoption and surrendering custody of one's child to social services.
Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 12:58 PM
Crow: Alright then, thank you for your thoughts. Like I said earlier in the thread, I want this thread to be more about abortion than retribution and the criminal justice system so I'll probably make a thread on it at some point within the next few days where this topic can be discussed in a more relevant thread.
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Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 12:59 PM
Dassault Papillon: I define pregnancy as beginning at the fertilisation of a sperm and an egg to form a zygote.

Is this also how you define life?
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Dassault Papillon
By Dassault Papillon | Aug 28 2016 1:00 PM
Famousdebater: Yes.
Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 1:03 PM
Dassault Papillon: Any particular reason why you believe that this is the point at which life begins?
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Dassault Papillon
By Dassault Papillon | Aug 28 2016 1:06 PM
Famousdebater: Uh, because that's the point where it's a single-celled biological entity?
Crow
By Crow | Aug 28 2016 1:07 PM
There is a significant turning point from a sperm cell and the conception of human life.

When you kill a fetus, person or not at the time, you do end up killing the future and very idea of a person.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 28 2016 1:08 PM
Anyone of us could of been aborted.
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 28 2016 1:20 PM
Anti-mainstream pirate radio on abortion





















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Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 1:31 PM
Crow: Anyone of us could of been aborted.

So? If I was aborted I never would have known that I would exist in the first place. If I never existed, then I never would have had the capacity to care about whether I existed or not. I only have that capacity because I wasn't aborted.
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Famousdebater
By Famousdebater | Aug 28 2016 1:32 PM
Crow: When you kill a fetus, person or not at the time, you do end up killing the future and very idea of a person.

So is breaking an acorn the equivalent of cutting down an oak tree?
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 28 2016 1:35 PM
Famousdebater: So? If I was aborted I never would have known that I would exist in the first place. If I never existed, then I never would have had the capacity to care about whether I existed or not. I only have that capacity because I wasn't aborted.

That is still an overall negation.

You are destroying the potential for the most beautiful thing in existence.

In the case of abortion, the consciousness exists short into pregnancy, and therefore the human soul does as well.
So is breaking an acorn the equivalent of cutting down an oak tree?

No, just like jacking off isn't aborting several million human lives.

The standard is being drawn, and different people have different ideas on where the line should be drawn.
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admin
By admin | Aug 28 2016 2:16 PM
Famousdebater: Personally I think my views are well-known.

Abortion should not be banned.

The fetus becomes living when it is born. I believe this because that's when most of the usual bodily functions that we associate with life, although they may have previously developed, actually start functioning.

I believe it should be legal when:
1. The mother's life is at risk, in all cases; or
2. The mother has attended a significant amount of counselling (which can be intensive over a few days), and the father is informed if they can be contacted; or
3. The mother is aged under 16 (or whatever age would allow them to have an abortion without necessarily attracting the attention of family for the counselling requirement), and pledges to attend counselling later on.
In particular, there should not be economic or social barriers to abortions. All other rights of patients should be assured.
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admin
By admin | Aug 28 2016 2:19 PM
Dassault Papillon: So would you say "you" are several billion lives, or just one?

The human body is designed to recycle cells... killing a cell is not a crime, or else we'd all be in prison.
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admin
By admin | Aug 28 2016 2:21 PM
Crow: "Common sense" isn't an argument in the first place. You can't make a counter-argument to a nonexistent argument.
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Dassault Papillon
By Dassault Papillon | Aug 28 2016 2:23 PM
admin: I really don't think it's that simple. At the initial stage of development you are a single cell, but later on you are billions of cells, and none of these trillions of cells have the designation of "life". Or at least not life on the level of a human being. Every cell in your body is not a zygote or an embryo, after all.
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