Orlando shooting

Crow: Without laws.
Right, how do you have justice without laws or government?

Oh, so you and your family are having sex with gay men?
Dude, I was kidding. That's why I said later "Seriously though..." But it is a gay disease. It's science.

Right, how do you have justice without laws or government?

Stop looking at the social construct as the means of justice.

What actually delivers justice? Is it the piece of paper called a law, or the countless politicians and bureaucrats that comprise the government?

Krazy: Dude, I was kidding. That's why I said later "Seriously though..." But it is a gay disease. It's science.


I am still struggling to understand how what gay men do is of concern to you. If it is about judgement, it would fall under God's jurisdiction, right?

Crow: Do you believe in justice?

Krazy: It depends which definition of Justice you are using.

If justice is determined as being the maintaining of written law, then I do not believe in justice.

If justice were determined by what is good, then I do believe in justice, but that also means everyone has their own intepretation of what is considered just.

Either way, I am still confused as to why it would be anyone else's duty but Gods to deliver justice, from your own perspective.

Crow: Either way, I am still confused as to why it would be anyone else's duty but Gods to deliver justice, from your own perspective.

God delivers justice through human governments (Romans 13:1-7)

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

Krazy: God delivers justice through human governments (Romans 13:1-7)

That actually is interpreted as Paul reiterating what Jesus said in the gospels, that all power is due to God, as he is the only legitimate ruler.

E.G Give unto Caesar what Caesar is due, and give unto God what God is due

So unless you are the appointed ministry of God, we are back at square one. What right do you have to deliver justice, when God claims that right for himself?

Crow: It says in Romans 13 that God estsblishes governments to punish evil-doers. Really, this argument is over.

Krazy: That isn't what it says.

http://www.directionjournal.org/issues/gen/art_849_.html

Paul isn't saying that God establishes governments to punish evil. Paul is clearly stating that all true rulers are appointed by God, as God is the only one with the authority to judge, and his appointed ministers are the only ones with the authority to act on his behalf. He is also saying that God and his true judges should be obeyed.

It is just amazing how little you understand the bible.

When I was a Christian, I used to think Paul was completely full of shit, but that is another story.

Crow: That isn't what it says.
Read it.

Krazy: I did, and I offered you the correct analysis.

How about you respond to my points instead of acting like a little prissy girl?

Krazy: I don't think the bible promotes any specific form of government. It may point to things that are immoral(like 10 commandments), but it doesn't promote governments banning these things. These are laws of God, not of man. The justice of God would exist without government.

Crow: Watch. Your. Language.

You're lucky this wasn't reported.

You have a real problem with attitude and I think I speak for most people when I say that these kinds of sustained personal attacks are not welcome on this site. Not to me, not to Krazy, not to anybody.

Learn to control your language before I get too sick of it.

Bi0Hazard: I don't think the bible promotes any specific form of government.
So therefore there shouldn't be any government? If that's what your saying, then that's very poor reasoning.

It may point to things that are immoral(like 10 commandments), but it doesn't promote governments banning these things.
It clearly says in Scripture that that is the purpose of governments - to punish evil.

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. - Romans 13:4

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. -Genesis 9:6

The bible promotes a religious theocracy ran by God, not by man.

Crow: Why did you thumbs-up everything?

Crow: In the Bible there is a concept called stewardship. Everything belongs to God, but in this present age He gives men temporal control of those things which belong to God, with the understanding that they will be managed well. To varying degrees everyone has been given stewardship over something.
Likewise, the kings of this world have been given stewardship over their subjects, to govern them fairly and wisely to for the good of his subjects. I believe that part of this stewardship may include enforcing the rules of God which He isn't actively enforcing in this age.

Krazy: As what Stag said, the bible promotes a religious theocracy, not a constitutional republic with a free market.

The bible promotes a religious theocracy ran by God, not by man
As what Stag said, the bible promotes a religious theocracy, not a constitutional republic with a free market.
If that's true, then why didn't Jesus Christ overthrow the Roman Empire while He was on earth?