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Judging Standard

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admin
By admin | Jul 16 2016 4:41 AM
Recently, faced with declining judging quality and with strong community support, we introduced the new judging standards system.

So, how do people think the community judging standard is working?

Key questions:
Do you think the standard is strict enough? Too strict?
Should it remain the default option?
What other options should there be, if any?
Is it clear enough how to report a judgement?
Are judges' responsibilities clear enough?
Is moderation effective enough?
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 16 2016 3:13 PM
admin: The only standard I want are no asked-for judgements. I am fine with bad judgements. The original philosophy was to allow all judgements to stay up, because we wanted to encourage judging. The judge comments were added for feedback, and they have been used successfully in my opinion.

With that said, I hate the moderation and standards. That should answer the rest of the questions.

I have been feeling kind of hopeless about the whole online debating format. I do not trust judges to act without bias towards the arguments or the debaters.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 16 2016 3:17 PM
Well, I guess I could say I do not want the community judging standard to be the default.
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admin
By admin | Jul 16 2016 3:17 PM
What we're up against is this:



Obviously there's something to improve on there.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 16 2016 3:22 PM
admin: I believe the change is going to come from the community here. Not any rules or standards you might add.

You could create things like the "judge comments" that encourage better judgements, or advertise yourself what your vision of what constitutes a good judgement.
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admin
By admin | Jul 16 2016 3:30 PM
Crow: I mean, that's the thing ... the community itself hates its OWN judgements more than it used to. Quality has not dropped so much since the standard was introduced but the trend overall is still there.

The reason why this is in the community subforum is I agree this is a community effort. So the question becomes what can we do?
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 16 2016 11:19 PM
admin: Wait...

So the quality of judgements has dropped and people like the current judgements more than the past ones?
The ADB committee just changed its policy on 8/28/2016
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admin
By admin | Jul 17 2016 12:36 AM
Crow: No, people like past judgments more than current ones. Or at least rated them higher.

I don't assess quality, personally, the community does.
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Crow
By Crow | Jul 17 2016 1:25 AM
admin: You just need to analyze everything that has changed since then, and determine what things had the most likely impact.

I would think the main reason for the fall in judging quality is the creation of the community judging standard and nzlockie leaving.

When a judgement has two constructive ratings, someone is unlikely to rate it poorly afterwards due to cognitive bias (a problem with debate judging in general)
The ADB committee just changed its policy on 8/28/2016
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admin
By admin | Jul 17 2016 1:31 AM
Crow: The judging standard came about 6 months after the quality began declining. Likewise there's no correlation with the leaving of any particular member, as far as I can tell (and for the record, nzlockie still pops around from time to time).
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 5 2016 7:24 AM
@admin
What would it take for you to remove the enforced judging standards?
admin
By admin | Aug 5 2016 7:27 AM
Bi0Hazard: Community support. It would probably be a change to an open standard default first.
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 5 2016 7:29 AM
admin: Did the community support the judging standard in the first place?
admin
By admin | Aug 5 2016 7:35 AM
Bi0Hazard: Yes. Not only did the site support it, they proposed it in the first place and pushed for it. I called for feedback on it and at the time everybody just said they wanted it. I then wrote a standard, asked for feedback from the community and I got told to make the standard even TOUGHER. I argued about it and well, we have what we have now.
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 5 2016 8:06 AM
admin: Oh No!
Crow
By Crow | Aug 5 2016 8:48 AM
admin: The "supporters" didn't stay.

There are tons of things I wouldn't of liked that I would of accepted before a judging standard.

Such as mandatory explanations (hate it), validation to judge (hate it), and a higher character count on decisions (dislike it)
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admin
By admin | Aug 5 2016 8:51 AM
Crow: Mandatory explanations already exists as an option btw
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Crow
By Crow | Aug 5 2016 8:53 AM
Here was my rant on this.


Go ahead and remove it. The community judging standard if awful.

Judgements should provide a narrative of the debate, sense the correct style of judging should be analyzing overall persuasion.

The attachment to straight up negation was shit on DDO, and you brought that over here, even though it contradicted the original concept behind judging you had.

The original concept being that everyone could get into judging.

This new concept removes judgements? You used to be super opposed to removing judgements, and you finally won me over. As soon as you win me over, you revert to removing judgements just because some part-time nazis from DDO asked you too.

How am I supposed to try and change the culture of how online debates are judged, if 90% of debates are going to restrict me from providing my simplified and easy to follow narrative style judging?

Among the 3 best examples of Edeb8 selling out is the community judging standard.

And I read the entire debate in detail. I even tried to decipher that invisible round.

I gave feedback at the end, because I thought it responsible of me to give advice to both debaters, even though I also vocally oppose the extra point it adds.

I defend this judgement, and this is how judgements should work if you want a lot of people doing them. They should be simplified narratives that show the debate was read in detail, and within them is the explanation of why the judge found one position more convincing.

If you go by the awful community judging standard, then here comes back the elitist vibe in tow with over complicated and unnecessarily detailed judgement.
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The ADB committee just changed its policy on 8/28/2016
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Bi0Hazard
By Bi0Hazard | Aug 5 2016 3:11 PM
admin: Mandatory explanations already exists as an option btw
But it is optional, and mostly not chosen(and don't really like it much anyways). Can you remove a judging standard from your debate if you want?
admin
By admin | Aug 5 2016 6:01 PM
Bi0Hazard: Yes.
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Let's revive the forums!