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dogs are better than cats

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admin: OG, who would win in a fight between a lion and a labrador?
cooldudebro: I think it'll be the wolf
admin: That's a non-answer to my question, but further to that point, wouldn't you agree that wolves are routinely outclassed by big cats in wild fights?
Bifurcations: The dog breed you are looking for is a Rhodesian Ridgeback which were bred to defend against lions amongst other things. A lion and a labrador would never cross paths in terms of their environment so they have not evolved to fight each other.
admin: Would you agree then that such environmental evolutionary factors are non-comparative?
Bifurcations: not sure I understand the question. Can you ask in a different way or expand it a bit?
admin: Yes. Do you think that a difference between cats and dogs as a result of their circumstances in the wild (for example, wether two species would naturally cross paths) has no bearing on wether one is superior to the other?
Bifurcations: No i think it does because it is their current evolutionary status that we have to measure I just believe there is a sensible way of doing it and a silly way. It is fair to compare two similar sized cats and dogs if discussing their agility or something. It is then fair to only compare two breeds/species that have been naturally pitted against each other when you are considering who would win in a fight. Something like intelligence can be done on average. Also thanks for rewording the question.
admin: So, when would size be your qualifier, when would circumstance be it, and when would it be fairest/most sensible to take an average? Also, don't you think that standard for "better" sounds a little ... arbritrary, given that it seems to be inconsistent?
Bifurcations: Whenever that physical qualifier is most relevant to the skill on which we are judging them then it would be a qualifier I am happy to lay out loads of examples for this but will do so in my speech so as not to waste space here. On you're second question no I don't consider it arbitrary. I think because we are judging two very diverse species it is possible to examine them individually on a highly comparative level looking at individual skills and then on aggregate. Is it really less arbitrary then comparing a lion and a labrador in a fight and using that to determine which is "better"?
admin: Only if you accept that which one would win in a fight is just as arbritrary as which one plays better with humans. Do you?
Bifurcations: really, "plays better with humans"? I don't accept either of those. I have more of a complaint about the fight standard based on you unfairly putting a labrador against a lion, that seems like a highly arbitrary standard very much biased towards cats. Give me a more reasonable explanation of "plays better with humans" and I'll discuss it.
cooldudebro: *stalks the cross ex*
Bifurcations: *nudges you to join in*
admin: Sure, in OG's argument they essentially argued that dogs are better PETS. This seems to me to be a highly arbritrary standard because dogs are social pack animals. Isn't that also arbritrary, then?
Bifurcations: Thats a shameless straw man of his case. He gives a number of examples and shows on aggregate why dogs are better at those particular skills. At a certain point everything is arbitrary but cooldudebro does a good job of back up why the judging on those skills is necessary. Still far less arbitrary than the labrador v lion.
admin: So in your view, OG hasn't set this debate in a domestic context at all?
Bifurcations: That one came from nowhere. So far he has only considered examples with domesticated animals but has not excluded any other breeds from the debate supported by the fact that he talked about wolves earlier in the CX. (I get the feeling we are going to be metric grabbing for a while so I will answer one more question then sleep cause it is 5am here :/ )
admin: (that's fine, there's days left on this thing lol) So "considered examples with domesticated animals" is fundamentally equivalent to showing things on aggregate (as in your previous answer) in your view? If so, is it your contention that domesticated breeds of cats and dogs are representative of cats and dogs as a species?
Bifurcations: I think they are representative in the majority for the skills he was using. Also I drew no "fundamental equivalence" because as I said before they should be judge on skills relevant to them. It would be just as unfair to judge a lion on it's ability to alert an owner to seizures as it is to determine a labradors worth by throwing it into a lion's den. He showed that for domesticated animals the ability to assist the lives of owners was a skill in which the dogs out classes the cats. (also that was two questions tut tut)
admin: Let me address this next one directly to the OG then. OG, do you think judging cats as a species based on their ability to alert humans when they have a seizure is actually relevant to cats?
cooldudebro: Regardless, all types of dogs, seizure dogs, dogs for special needs, etc are kept as pets
cooldudebro: Therefore, a relevant to the topic.
cooldudebro: That was a glitch
cooldudebro: I base my judgement of animals on how they treat us and how useful they are to us. Us pertaining to the human species.
cooldudebro: When it comes to pets, that is
cooldudebro: Simply, a cat just doesn't have nearly as many uses as a dog.
cooldudebro: I even showed how they may even be a hindrance.
cooldudebro: I hate that it's a 2 V 1 here
admin: Me too lol. But that's ok. And is a fair summary of your argument then, that a dog is a more useful animal to people, especially when dogs are kept or owned by people ie as pets?
cooldudebro: More useful and practical. Correct.
admin: Thanks. I rest my cx for the round.
cooldudebro: Good luck

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admin: OG, did your second round have anything substantive to it in relation to the debate?
cooldudebro: Nope. Just wanted to extend so I didn't F/F

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admin: Oh hey look at this, CX is working again
admin: Do you still think that cats are less advanced in terms of their ability to use tools? If so do you see this as being an important debate issue?

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Oh wait, I just realized it is finished now.
Posted 2016-06-03 03:01:27
Wow, this is a long debate, it was started two months ago and is still going.
@admin How can I do this type of debate?
Posted 2016-06-03 03:00:40
@Bifurcations you ok?
Posted 2016-05-26 05:49:35
Aes SedaiAes Sedai
Please debate my debate!?😄: 'Maths is better than English. I am con
Posted 2016-05-22 11:30:15
Well, cats have more power for their size, but that wouldn't make them better. Dogs have more uses as a pet.
Posted 2016-05-14 18:20:26
@admin yeah that's cool
Posted 2016-05-05 17:19:52
@Bifurcations would it be ok if I just post a random vid for now then?
Posted 2016-05-05 10:01:02
@admin don't currently have recording equipment so will just post a random video so I don't forfeit and will be back to normal for the next round.
Posted 2016-05-04 21:02:49
Muhammad SunnyMuhammad Sunny
I think dog is the best. because it help us in many way than cat
Posted 2016-05-04 14:49:34
@admin this is working now
Posted 2016-05-02 17:12:00
@admin thats cool :)
Posted 2016-04-29 18:23:15
@Bifurcations - apologies ... am trying to work out the forfeit bug and well, and would not be surprised if this is related. I think it's because my autoforfeit-for-4-way-debates code (which otherwise is like, barely ever run lol) might have been overlooked when I introduced CX to the site. Working on it.
Posted 2016-04-29 04:07:20
@admin it keeps saying it is now your turn to post then going to CX
Posted 2016-04-29 00:21:53
@admin is this still on CX for you?
Posted 2016-04-28 20:01:13
Presumably something went wrong with posting too many forfeits there, but I'll have it fixed asap.
Posted 2016-04-23 00:45:29
@Bifurcations - well if you think you have broad support, suggest the removal of the feature in the feature request thingy.
Posted 2016-04-14 01:28:13
@admin there is alternative formats and then formats that make it almost impossible for particular debaters to engage within the debate
Posted 2016-04-14 00:42:46
@Bifurcations You can have a normal BP debate if you have 2 rounds per team and no reply speeches. (that would be OG/OO/OG/OO/CG/CO/CG/CO)

I didn't set up the parameters for this debate. I also don't think it's a problem that edeb8 supports alternate formats, even formats you and I might think are crazy. I opposed the implementation of quick debates for example but relented in the end.
Posted 2016-04-13 23:50:14
@admin seriously? this seems mad

In a debate that is a little more serious than this it would be impossible for the closing teams to engage in any meaning full way with new material. Would it not be better to have a round as a normal BP debate ie top half then bottom half or is this impossible to code?
Posted 2016-04-13 23:46:30
@Bifurcations Well, each side has 5 rounds. So like this:

Posted 2016-04-13 23:35:11
@admin can you tell me the order in which the debate will happen? ie what counts as a round in this debate?
Posted 2016-04-13 22:41:24
and they're only a few years apart
Posted 2016-04-09 22:49:53
That's not her dad, btw.
Posted 2016-04-09 22:49:40
In other words, I extend
Posted 2016-04-09 22:35:58
I guess that depends on the values raised in the debate @DHS15608
Posted 2016-04-09 09:27:52
I know your all doing this for fun, but if you take this subject seriously then it can not be debated seriously. It is all subjective, but I guess subjective debates can be really interesting, or is one of them really better than the other?
Posted 2016-04-09 04:06:35
@admin cool never noticed that before
Posted 2016-04-05 01:02:35
Sorry, forgot to tag: @Bifurcations
Posted 2016-04-05 01:00:39
You get a notification when you used to be the previous person with a CX post, and now you're not. In my code I just check if the CX last-poster has changed and if it has, send the former person a notification. Since nobody posted before me, nobody gets a notification.

I know, it's a bit of a simple workaround to the problem of not sending stuff every single time somebody posts. It's on my longer-term list.
Posted 2016-04-05 00:59:53
@admin I didn't get a notification about the CX question being posted and I normally do?
Posted 2016-04-05 00:56:52
@cooldudebro BTW, check the CX, I asked you something :P
Posted 2016-04-05 00:49:41
@admin that makes sense, thanks :)
Posted 2016-04-05 00:46:22
Yes, because otherwise there'd be 3 winners lol. So, OO forfeits all their remaining rounds automatically, and otherwise the debate continues as normal.
Posted 2016-04-05 00:29:17
@admin how does this work? thought the rules were forfeiting a round means forfeiting the debate but it says CX is available? is it different for 4 people debates?
Posted 2016-04-04 23:34:54
Posted 2016-04-04 22:21:44
will be pretty sad if this debate ends here :(
Posted 2016-04-04 20:58:01
Yeah, and with CX too. Can't wait for that.
Posted 2016-04-01 10:39:57
Web Study EduWeb Study Edu
ya i hope is great :)
Posted 2016-04-01 10:06:39
Woot, this'll be the first BP-style video debate in the site's history.
Posted 2016-04-01 10:04:37
yeah makes a lot more sense now :)
Posted 2016-03-31 17:21:46
Web Study EduWeb Study Edu
now you got a meaning ?
Posted 2016-03-31 17:20:27
What is this motion supposed to be?
Posted 2016-03-31 13:05:51
The judging period on this debate is over

Previous Judgments

2016-06-04 22:39:54
CrowJudge: Crow
Win awarded to: admin
This debate comes down to one thing for me. Presentation and speaking skills.

The Closing Government was very difficult to watch. It was painfully slow, awkward, and you could not hear much beyond whispers and the speakers sniveling.

The problem wasn't the message, but the messenger, and in competitive debating, the quality of speaking is just as important as the quality of the arguments. The goal in debating is too show that you are more convincing. In a parliamentary debate, you are playing the role of a politician, and therefore need to act the part. Charisma was not something present in the Closing Governments speeches (If you can call them that)

Watching the Closing Oppositions argument though, you see a clear difference in mood and style. The CO is much more passionate and confident about the position being advocated for. That is what wins people over.

The CO wasn't anywhere close to flawless though, but relative to the CG they were not even in the same ballpark.

Be confident when you speak. Give the impression that you are excited to be talking about your position, and that you feel strongly about your stance,

Having a consistent presentation is something else that is important. In the case of the closing opposition, we were presented with one round with a crazy hitchhiker as a speaker, and in the second video we had a common city shmuck speaking. Both were the same person, and talked consistently. The look wasn't consistent though, which makes it harder to establish an atmosphere.

Establishing an atmosphere, or mood, can help control the way your arguments are perceived by your audience.
1 user rated this judgement as good
2 comments on this judgement
Totally digged your Crazy Sanders look from your first debating round though.
Posted 2016-08-22 00:51:21
I almost think you take these debates too seriously. He is not in front of an audience, just online.
Posted 2017-03-14 19:49:23
2016-06-05 12:49:54
dsjpk5Judge: dsjpk5
Win awarded to: admin
2016-06-12 03:05:04
Bi0HazardJudge: Bi0Hazard    TOP JUDGE
Win awarded to: admin

Rules of the debate

  • Video debate
  • Individual debate
  • 5 rounds
  • 6 minutes per round
  • Reply speeches
  • Uses cross-examination
  • Community Judging Standard (notes)
  • Forfeiting rounds means forfeiting the debate
  • Rated debate
  • Time to post: 3 days
  • Time to vote: 2 weeks
  • Time to prepare: None