Individuals in the transgender community have been at a struggle for years. Now that gay marriage is legal, there is more focus on us. The truth is, even before the trans bathroom issue WAS an issue, trans people have been using the bathroom they identify with for years.
My first argument is that I am aware you are trying to keep men out of women's restrooms, right? Well, you will actually be putting men IN women's restrooms!
Here is an image of a trans woman on her website. While there are some who do not pass as easily, they are rare and usually start hormones eventually. I chose this woman because she defies the typical SJW transgender, and is actually libertarian.
Does she, born male, really belong in a mens' restroom?
Next, a photo of a trans male. I chose him because he is someone who really helped me to understand what I am going through as a trans man. (I didn't use myself for privacy reasons.)
Does he, born female, really belong in a women's' restroom?
Next argument is health. Many transgendered individuals already do not use the bathroom, in fear of getting beaten up. These people in return receive dangerous bladder infections, and sometimes don't even go to the doctor because of their dysphoria with their assigned gender. This can lead to extreme kidney damage, and even death. The number of trans infection, and even death, would increase dramatically is boys were told they could only pee in the women's room, and vice versa.
My next argument is chromosomes. While males typically have xy chromosomes, and females typically have xx, there can always be mistakes. It happens a lot more often than you think. If chromosomes really define your gender, should a cisgender (not trans) man with xx chromosomes be forced to get a sex change?
My final argument for now is making a separate bathroom. I do not believe transgendered people should use a "transgender bathroom". This causes them to be singled out, and even targeted as well! We saw what happened in Orlando, where a muslim terrorist targeted and killed many gay people, in a gay bar. Imagine the shootings in a room full of transgendered people, such as a trans bathroom. Since being transgendered is very controversial right now, a bathroom full of them is waiting to get shot.
The truth is, if I walked into a women's bathroom (I am a trans man) I would get kicked out, and screamed at. If I walked into a transgender bathroom, I would fear for my life. If I walked into a men's bathroom, nobody would say anything and I would just pee.
Ashton's selfie. Digital Image. Myinforms. Web. 7 August 2016. <myinforms.com>
Return To Top | Posted:
In the United States, problems have already surfaced from allowing a man who calls himself ‘transgender’ to enter a woman’s area. As an example, in 2012 a college in Washington state decided it would not prevent a 45-year-old man who presents himself as a transgender “female” from lounging naked in a women’s locker room in an area frequented by girls as young as six. So “Colleen” Francis exposed his genitalia through the glass window in a sauna to teenage girls on a high school swim team. But police told one outraged mother that the university could not bar the biological male from the premises.
Jack Fonseca of Campaign Life Coalition told LifeSiteNews that it “didn’t take a brain surgeon to predict that letting men into women’s bathrooms and other private spaces would eventually lead to sexual assaults. I wish we didn’t have to say ‘I told you so,’ but Ontario’s party leaders and MPPs were warned that the transsexual ‘Bathroom Bill’ endangered women and needed to be defeated. Of course this lunatic law could only make it easier for rapists and peeping toms to prey on female victims while masquerading as ‘transgendered’.”
Calling for a repeal of the law, Fonseca warned that “If this dangerous law is not repealed, we will only see a rise in male predators attacking women in spaces where they deserve the right to privacy like bathrooms, change rooms and women’s shelters.” (2)
David Takami with the Seattle Parks and Recreation Department said a man arrived at the Evans Pool in Greenlake Monday afternoon and paid to use the lap pool.
Takami said the man then entered the women’s locker room and took off his shirt in front of a local girls swimming team, which had just finished practicing. Several parents and other women using the locker room became alarmed and alerted pool staff.
When staff members confronted the man, he left the locker room and went swimming.
When he was done, Takami said the man went back into the women’s locker room and was again asked to leave. The man resisted, telling staff members the law had changed and he now had the right to use the locker room of his choice, according to Takami.
The man was likely referring to a new rule created by the Washington State Human Rights Commission that requires buildings open to the public to allow transgender people to use restrooms and locker rooms of the gender they identify with.
The man left the pool and staff members didn’t call police.
A similar incident occurred in Olympia in 2012, when a 45-year-old biological male who calls himself Colleen Francis lounged naked in a women’s locker room, in an area frequented by girls as young as six. According to the police report an eyewitness stated, “There were girls 6 to 18 years of age and they were not used to seeing individuals in situations like this.” But the facility gave him the right to continue using its facilities as he wished.
Those who oppose adding gender identity to non-discrimination ordinances and civil rights legislation have long warned the ordinances would be used specifically for that purpose." (3)
Should young women and men (for the reverse happening) have to deal with the constant risk of being raped just to fulfill the desire of less than .3% of the population? (4)
Return To Top | Posted:
Thank you for your time, you made some great points.
I would like to address that you said men can pretend to be transgender and walk into the women's restroom. While this is true, it would happen whether we implemented laws or not. Some men especially can make very convincing women, and walk in. While many men with obvious masculine features would not look feminine, there are many more who would. Also, what is stopping them from coming in and raping in the first place? Any man could run in, grab a girl, lock the stall and do whatever they wanted.
Next, I noticed you want transgender people to only use the bathroom at home. This would be a problem for people with certain conditions, or if they are rarely at home. Also, you said I contradicted myself by saying many transgendered people don't use public restrooms. I did not contradict myself, transgendered people are all individuals and are all different people. Many of them do not use the bathroom out of fear, but many, especially those who pass easily, do use public restrooms.
If a transgender man, born female, walked into the women's restroom with a beard, deep voice, and masculine physique, the cops would most certainly be called. While family restrooms are an option, they usually only have one toilet and most places, and least where I live, don't have them. Imagine if a transgendered person was at a concert, no family bathroom at the facility, and was about to urinate on themselves. Would you want them to just pee in their pants, or go into the public bathroom that matches their gender?
You also pointed out that "the comfort of many trump the comfort of a few", when you yourself want men walking into women's bathrooms just because they were born female, and vice versa. Most real trans women look female, and most real trans men look male.
Also, on the note of sexual assaults, what is stopping sexual assaults from happening already? A gay male pedophile can walk into the men's restroom, and rape a boy or another man easily. A female pedophile can do the same thing. Should we have separate bathrooms for different sexualities too?
In conclusion, what is in your pants doesn't define who you are. Sexual assaults in bathrooms can happen whether we implement laws or not, and not letting trans people use the public bathroom can result in many different health issues (such as UTIs and even kidney problems). Thank you for your time, and good luck.
Return To Top | Posted:
"There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend tomorrow"
The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one’s position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about.
The No True Scotsman fallacy involves discounting evidence that would refute a proposition, concluding that it hasn’t been falsified when in fact it has.
If Angus, a Glaswegian, who puts sugar on his porridge, is proposed as a counter-example to the claim “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge”, the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy would run as follows:
(1) Angus puts sugar on his porridge.
(2) No (true) Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
(3) Angus is not a (true) Scotsman.
(4) Angus is not a counter-example to the claim that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
This fallacy is a form of circular argument, with an existing belief being assumed to be true in order to dismiss any apparent counter-examples to it. The existing belief thus becomes unfalsifiable." (1)
As I said before, transgenders can be people who simply say they are male or female; without any defining characteristics making them the opposite gender.
Rebuttal to Paragraph 5:
The majority of rape is heterosexual. The majority of the people in the USA are heterosexual. (4) If we allow transgenders to go into the bathroom they identify as, it will also allow men who acts transgender or women to act as transgender (which is a lot more common) to peep or rape women or men (opposite sex) in the restroom simply by claiming they're transgender.
Rebuttal to Conclusion:
Using "common sense" in your sources is very disrespectful; as you assume me and anyone who disagrees with you does not have it. (This can be implied due to me not using your thinking on this debate) So, allow me to be just as disrespectful. The point went over your head, flew across the field, and hit a tree. Again, this will give rapists a better opportunity to rape. If this law passed and I had kids, I wouldn't feel comfortable, along with 38% of other conservatives, sending my future son/daughter into a public restroom. My examples I gave earlier demonstrate this perfectly. These laws can and will be abused. They can go use the restroom before they go out or suck it up and use the bathroom of the sex they were born as.
Return To Top | Posted:
Thank you for responding, and good luck in this final round.
You say I am missing the point entirely, this is very ironic.
"You assume all men have female characteristics. Many men could not pass for a female. That
is just simple fact. The men in the stories I gave looked like men
dressing as a woman. You could tell they were male. That's why the
security was able to spot them. The law would make it
legal for any potential rapist to throw on wig; claim they're trans;
and, go into the restroom. Without this law, these men in my stories
would've been stopped before they ever got a chance to enter. You're
missing the point entirely."
In reality, this is what I said, and you apparently did not read it.
"While many men with obvious masculine features would not look feminine, there are many more who would."
I never claimed all men had female characteristics, but you can't deny that many do.
Next, you ask for a study on transgendered people who have experienced health problems from not going to the bathroom. This is very respectable, and I thank you. A study from the Williams institute interviewed a group of transgendered people. 54% of them experienced health problems related to not using the bathroom. This is over half. An even larger number, at 58%, reported they avoided going out in public at times in fear of having to use the bathroom.
Also, you say the majority of trans people have characteristics of the gender they are "trying to escape". This is wrong on so many levels. First of all, ever hear of HRT? Hormone Replacement Therapy. Most trans men and women appear as the sex that matches their gender due to this. While they may still have male/female characteristics, these are usually very small and diminish within time and hormones. Also, trying to escape? As a trans man, born female, my gender was never female. I was always male, but my sex just doesn't match that.
the state of being male or female (typically used with reference
to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
either of the two main categories (male and female) into which
humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their
Next, you say they could go home before the concert? I am trans, and this actually happened to me. I was hundreds of miles away from home, and my hotel was really far away (it was a big event, most hotels were booked), and the concert was about to start. Since I look 100% male, I used the men's restroom. No questions asked. If transgendered people are away from home, on a long trip, etc, and there are no family bathrooms, do you want them to urinate in their pants? Next, you say use the restroom of the sex they were born with? Take note of the trans man I showed in round 1. You want a guy like him walking in the women's bathroom? You are ridiculous.
I would also like to answer on why transgendered people are depressed and suicidal. My entire life I was pretty much told not to be happy. Whenever I would favor anything masculine, it was shoved down my throat that I am a girl and I can't do that. I can't get that toy, I can't wear that shirt, etc. If my parents were more open minded and willing to let me do what I want despite my sex, I would have been a 100000X happier child. It seems like no big deal, but I had such an unhappy and depressing childhood. This is why so many transgendered people are still depressed today. Nobody deserves a childhood like mine, yet so many people go through it.
While most rapes are heterosexual, that doesn't change the fact that a man can still walk into the women's bathroom. Is there some sort of invisible barrier from stopping him?
My final point is you keep bringing up that transgendered people should use the restroom of their biological sex, or go at home. Going at home can cause all sorts of health problems, and most transgendered people who pass would have the cops called if they stepped foot into the restroom of their biological sex.
(Thank you for participating in this debate with me! Good luck.)
Return To Top | Posted:
ProlactinomaA Prolactinoma is a type of pituitary gland tumor. They can develop as a result of estrogen therapy. While they are usually benign they can be dangerous leading to headaches, vision problems and even permanent blindness. If you take estrogen your doctor will monitor a particular hormone called prolactin. This will help them determine if something is wrong in your pituitary gland. Again, there is a low risk but certainly not a 0% risk. I know of at least one trans woman who has required surgery because she developed a Prolactinoma so it does happen.
GallstonesEvidence shows that HRT can increase your risk of gallbladder disease and I can attest to it. I can't say with 100% certainty that my stone was caused by my taking estrogen but it sure grew fast once I started taking it. I also have a trans friend who has had her gallbladder out as well. Be very aware of this if you have a family history of gallstones.
Possible Risk of CancerThis is a controversial topic so I will not go to much into it here. Some evidence says that HRT increases your risk of breast cancer while others say it doesn't. I will just say ask the doctor (like with all of these points) and know your family history" (1)
Return To Top | Posted: