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That the gender wage gap is a myth

(PRO)
2 points
(CON)
WINNER!
7 points
Millennial Millennial (PRO)
Opponents will quote statistics, but misunderstand their true meanings.
But rest assured, there is no wage gap for men and women who are straight out of college, single, and do not have kids. 
If fact, there may be a wage gap where women in this category are earning nearly 10% more than men in 50 major cities in America.
http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html

Women take different jobs than men. High paying jobs that are dangerous, for example, are less likely to be filled by women than men. This isn't by mandate, but by choice. Statistically, women also work less hours than men, probably many times for good reason (kids, for example), yet the so called 'wage gap' does not take this into account. 

The "wage gap" is calculated by adding up all the dollars made by men/# of men, and all the dollars made by women/# of women.. it doesn't take into account some basic logic (you work more hours, you make more money.. you choose a field that pays more, you make more). So stop pushing this devastatingly misleading and trivial talking point.

Notice my argument is NOT that there shouldn't be equality in terms of paying the same amount for two people who are equally qualified and beneficial for a job position, regardless of gender.. if you find a male and female who both have the same level of education, same degrees, same recommendations, same experience, same performance, etc... then of course they should be paid the same.. but why should women get paid the SAME if let's say they are better than their male counterparts?? In this case -- they should get paid MORE -- pay should be based on your merit, not your gender.

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-05-11 00:06:32
| Speak Round
GuitarKirbyGuitarKirby (CON)
I apologize for my tardiness in the first round.

As my opponent has already stated, there are indeed a great deal of statistics pointing to a gender wage gap. A Department of Labor survey in 2015 found that while women's standing in the workforce has increased and wages have gone up, they are still paid less than men (US Department of Labor). This article also agrees with my opponent's statement about occupational segregation, wherein women tend to go into lower-paying jobs than men.

The article my opponent cites also has a major caveat. In the time article citing the study where it was found that young women were making more than men, it was said that "this reverse gender gap, as it's known, applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities." (Luscombe)

However, occupational segregation isn't what we're discussing. Wage gaps are. And the wage gap is calculated using earnings ratios, ergo "equal pay for equal work." It seems my opponent has tried to dismiss this part of the discussion out of hand by saying that they agree that men and women of equal value for a position should be paid equal wages. Whether or not the opposition believes that this is or should be the case is irrelevant to the topic; the only thing that matters here is whether or not it's actually happening. In the Department of Labor study I previously referenced, it was found that women's wages are only 79.6% of men's. An earlier report by the US Census Bureau found that African-American women make as little as 64 cents for every dollar white men make. (Semega et al)

My opponent also stated that women take lower-paying jobs than men and work less hours for reasons such as family rearing. While I don't disagree, this is perpetuated by cultural biases towards women and roles imposed on them from childhood, so while it may not be a legal mandate, it is a socioeconomic one that should be discussed within the same conversation.

And before my opponent brings it up, it's true that women take maternity leave if they become pregnant. However, I would argue that if men and women's wages AND benefits were treated equally, men would gain paternity leave in addition to women getting equal pay. Because when you get right down to the core of this debate, you find it's an argument about equality. But you can't fix the problem until you admit that there is one.

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-05-12 17:24:13
| Speak Round


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nzlockienzlockie
I would love to take this debate, but the timing just doesn't work for me! 1 day to post each round is too quick for me. I hope someone takes this one.
Posted 2018-05-10 05:12:15
The judging period on this debate is over

Previous Judgments

2018-05-15 20:45:36
nzlockieJudge: nzlockie    TOP JUDGE
Win awarded to: GuitarKirby
Reasoning:
OK, this was an interesting debate to judge.
Lots of forfeits from both sides, which is disappointing. But considering both sides were able to post one round each, I've taken each at their relative merits.

Essentially this is the way I see this one scoring:
PRO argued that a wage gap DOES exist, (even cited an article to prove it which was an interesting move) but that it can be explained by logical deduction.
They also made the point that where all factors are equal, there ought not be a wage gap.

CON cited a bunch of heavy hitting sounding articles, but unfortunately none of them were linked so I couldn't really read them. It was mildly annoying but it didn't factor into the scores at all since PRO didn't contest them. In this instance, as a Judge, I have to take them as they've been presented.
CON's case was that the studies were based on pay ratios for equal work. And that those studies showed a wage gap. So we have one side claiming a study that shows a wage gap where Women are paid more, and the other side claiming a study that shows that Men are paid more.

Either way, the cited studies claim there is a wage gap, so that point leans pretty heavily to CON.

On a side note, CON quite correctly chides PRO for their point about the resolution not being about what OUGHT to be, but rather, what IS... but then does exactly the same thing when they say that although Women currently get more Maternity leave, Men OUGHT to be getting some as well.

Ultimately I have to give this one to CON. And this all could have been avoided had PRO...

Feedback:
... Defined the resolution!

It is SO IMPORTANT for PRO to define the resolution in their first round. Don't ever assume that your audience is as familiar with the terms as you are! In a perfect world, the Judges wouldn't have a clue about the resolution - that would ensure that they are as impartial as it's possible to be.

In this instance, PRO needed to define what the "Gender Wage Gap Myth"actually is.
Is it that there is a Wage gap based on gender? That would infer that if either gender can be shown to earn more than the other, then there IS a Pay Gap.
Is it that one gender earns more gross than the other? If so, then hours worked, or job earning potential is not a factor.

Both of these questions are totally justified to someone who knows nothing about it, but totally change the actual resolution and Burden of Proof.

PRO could have avoided all of this by simply framing the debate like this: "The Gender Wage Gap Myth refers to the idea that Women are paid a lower hourly rate than Men for the same work over the same amount of time."

CON is not off the hook with this either. In the instances where PRO fails to define the resolution, CON is within their rights to do it for them. Often times this renders a lot of PRO's first round wasted - which is why it's so important for PRO to remember to do it.
CON didn't do this either.

Aside from this critique, both sides argued well. Your cases were easy to read and clear. I'm really disappointed that the debate didn't go the full distance, I'd love to see you guys redo this one with a better time frame for posting.

CON, you need to link the articles you cite. Either use the hyperlink icon from the toolbar, or write the url out in long form at the bottom of your round. Just referencing a name at the end of a quote is not enough I'm afraid.
If your opponent says that your article is bogus or out of context, the judges need to be able to make a call on that. Otherwise they have to just accept the critique as valid.
1 user rated this judgement as constructive
1 comment on this judgement
GuitarKirbyGuitarKirby
Thank you for both the judgement and criticism. I realized right after posting that I had forgotten to actually place a works cited at the bottom of my argument, so I decided to leave in the error rather than correct in the comments.

I am somewhat surprised that you say I didn't define the goalposts. I rather thought I was very clear as to what the goals of PRO needed to be and what my goals were, but evidently I was wrong.

I'd love to do this debate again. Time frame was less of an issue than the fact that my university is doing finals this week, and that took precedence.
Posted 2018-05-15 21:29:52
2018-05-16 05:12:27
Undovic88Judge: Undovic88
Win awarded to: GuitarKirby
Reasoning:
He included much more info and it seemed at first as if pro was fighting the wrong side.
0 comments on this judgement
2018-05-18 01:59:52
Jake .Judge: Jake .
Win awarded to: Millennial
2018-05-19 02:55:14
MharmanJudge: Mharman    TOP JUDGE
Win awarded to: Millennial
2018-05-24 12:59:58
James MartinezJudge: James Martinez
Win awarded to: GuitarKirby
Reasoning:
Base on my judgment, I declare GuitarKirby (Con) won the debate. He actually presented and cited many facts from reliable sources than the opposing side. Furthermore, the explanation is somehow clear that wage gap is really present in our society nowadays based again from the cited sources.
0 comments on this judgement
2018-05-30 13:20:33
EunoiadJudge: Eunoiad
Win awarded to: GuitarKirby

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