
I think a useful way to frame this debate is to argue in terms of US states that already allow the death penalty.
The mechanism I propose for this is that after all appeals have been exhausted or waived by the individual then it is possible to offer death. This would be allowed when it is determined that the individual is fully aware of the consequences of their decision and are aware enough to make the decision. Help for things like depression should be offered first. That individual will then be entered into Death row and the usual proceedings would then apply.
I will make make a single argument in this round to open my case.
"Lifers" tend to be serious problems for prison staff because every freedom has been taken from them and their is no way t regain it. This means the staff have limited bargaining power in working with the individual. This lack of communication and respect means that many lifers seek to regain some sort of control in other ways. They do this by organising, participating and running gangs within prisons. This gives them they ability to have some control over their environment and life and still allows them to engage in the crimes that others have done or will do when released. Gangs cause severe problems for the prison service making it much harder to keep control and making rehabilitation seriously difficult. This is due to the fact that staff have to try and earn respect and open communications with an individual who is within the influence of a gang and either fears for their safety or respects the gang more. A lack of rehabilitation and dependency on gangs means that people are more likely to commit crimes after they have been released. I am not trying to claim that we can solve all gang issues within prisons but that we can severely disrupt that process.
Here's how this would work. In many cases where people have exhausted their appeals I believe they would ask for the option of death (and at least some take this already through suicide) because to spend an untold number of years in prison is certainly torture. This means that their is a channel of dialogue opened by the prisoner and they would be forced then to talk with medical staff and rehabilitative staff about their problems and their options. This is something that currently does not happen because the prisoner is already biased against the system that is detaining them and after all appeals are exhausted they feel their is no other hope. With this dialogue there is some hope of gaining respect and getting the prisoner to be able to actually feel remorse for the crime they have committed. This is important to many victims who feel it is only then that the punishment is worth something allowing them to have closure. This communication and chance for rehabilitation to be effective even for lifers means that the prisoner will have some hope of feeling in control and will be less likely persuaded to join a gang in the first place.
Lifers tend to make gang leaders because they are constantly there to assert dominance and control. Making less lifers less likely to become gang leaders means the long term power of gangs can be disrupted. This allows prison staff to more effectively dismantle gangs if there is less long term leaders.
They may take the option of death and be allowed that opportunity which is acceptable as the judge has deemed the crimes so terrible the person is not safe to ever be released back to society anyway.
To make prisons safer and more manageable we should allow prisoners serving a life sentence to choose death instead.
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-03-23 11:17:17
| Speak Round
Thank you to Bifurcations for engaging in this debate. Unfortunately, I think he has chosen a position which is completely untenable, given that the proposition is fatally flawed before we even begin. Normally when debating issues surrounding the death penalty, is the issues are fairly well established. Most people have an opinion and debates are often focussed on the smaller, moot points in order to sway the judgement one way or another. I will attempt to show that this proposition would satisfy neither side of a traditional debate; liberal nor conservative, collectivist nor reformist.
I will first offer a rebuttal of my opponents opening remarks, after which I will outline my central concerns relating to this proposition.
Rebuttal
Unfortunately my opponent has confused an already hazy subject with incongruent comparisons and unsubstantiated conjecture. In his very first line he draws a parallel with US states that already allow the death penalty, when this is really completely irrelevant. If something is a penalty, it can't also be an individual choice. The death penalty isn't optional or refutable, so where lies any comparison with the debate at hand? My opponent perhaps recognises that this is an erroneous example as he makes no further mention of the death penalty in individual States.
The key gist of his entire opening statement focusses on the idea that 'lifers' are more likely to be disruptive, reoffend and in general make life difficult. He also alleges that lifers are likely to be in prison gangs. However, he offers no proof of any of this, nor any citations, and as far as I can tell is basing this entirely on the idea that a life sentence without the possibility of parole does not incentivise good behaviour.
In the interest of expedience, I won't highlight every false assertion he makes, but suffice to say the issues raised, in particular relating to re-offending and prison gangs, is far more complicated and faceted than he presented. One of the eminent authorities on these issues is the think tank Death Penalty Focus:-
"Multiple studies that have been completed since capital punishment was reinstated show that prisoners sentenced to life without parole do not pose any more threat to other prisoners or corrections personnel than do inmates in the general population, and in most cases “lifers” perpetrate fewer crimes in prison than those eligible for parole." - Death Penalty Focus
https://death.rdsecure.org/article.php?id=555
My opponent also asserts that life imprisonment without the possibility of parole represents torture. By no definition of the word torture can incarceration be described as torture. It is worth mentioning that life imprisonment is a violation of the Human Rights Act, which is why in Europe even mass murderers cannot be jailed for life indefinitely, but then so too is the death penalty, so that doesn't make things any better.
Arguments against the proposal
There are so many to list here I will spare the reader the reams of arguments that I could post at this point. To try and be concise, my main arguments are essentially as follows:
1. Life imprisonment is supposed to be just that! For those who have committed the most heinous of crimes, it is surely right that we should punish them accordingly? The central argument for many debates relating to the very merits of the death penalty focus on the prevention of further crimes as a result of the deterrence of a strict sentence. Surely, to the families of victims of murder, allowing the prisoner to 'opt out' of his or her sentence with a lethal injection? Society needs to be careful not to completely remove any semblance of punishment, nor to remove the deterrence it provides.
2. Self-determined executions create a myriad of legal complications.
3. It would set Constitutional precedent. Effectively, the proposition calls for state-approved suicide.
4. It would be expensive. Executing somebody can costs hundreds of thousands...
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-03-24 02:18:22
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PRACTICALS
Framing is not an example but rather the context in which this debate happens: states that already allow the death penalty and by extension the Federal system. This means that my opponent's practical concerns have already been accepted as worthwhile by these states. My opponent chose to correct my spelling instead of responding to my analysis on why the harms they claimed happen, do not exist. (CX)
GANGS
The final missing link in my case is to prove that some lifers are very likely to participate in gang violence. This is seen readily in the Federal system where current gang members are incarcerated under the three strike rule. The only way to remain in control of their life is to continue gang services and recruit new members. The staff engage these individuals because there is no other methods for the prisoner to control their life. This then supports the analysis that I provided in the first round.
Apologies massively benefit families as this report shows and even those who are on death row are more likely to apologise after engaging with rehab staff. My policy makes this mandatory before the sentence of death is even accepted therefore more families are likely to get the apology that will help them heal. They receive that apology quicker and they can then move on after the death of the perpetrator rather than constantly have that individual as a reminder of the crime that happened. My opponent asserted that my policy would benefit no one but I say it benefits those who we should care about the most: the victims families.
Justice
When a judge sentences someone to life without parole the punishment is only intended to be limited freedoms and life controlled by the state, however this is not the realistic extent of the punishment. The reality, especially for lifers convicted as juveniles, is one of violence, rape and terror. This is not condoned by the state but neither can it be effectively tackled by the state. The theory of life without parole does not tie up with the reality. This can be balanced in individual cases by allowing the option of accepting death. We can only sentence someone to a knowable punishment. There is no other option with these cases. By giving lifers the option of accepting death they can make a choice about whether they want to live with the threat of violence or being the victim of violence or whether they would rather just die. This is why this policy is necessary to uphold a moral standard of justice.
States recognise it is a terrible act to commit someone to death and they feel it is useful due to the high level of deference it can provide (as conceded by my opponent) which shows they believe it to be a harsh punishment and use it sparingly. My opponent asserts that victims' families want to see the perpetrator being punished for the rest of their life however this is false:
These are unique view points from different groups that exist simultaneously which is not paradoxical.
What my opponent seems to be advocating is punishment for punishment's sake ("Life imprisonment is supposed to be just that!"). What I am advocating for is an efficient way to achieve a just resolution to a terrible crime.
CONCLUSIONS
I feel it was unfortunate that my opponent did not substantiate their case in the first round as this is only a two round debate, I will not have an opportunity to rebut any substantial new material provided by my opponent next.
I have shown a principled justification of this policy and proven its practical use under the current framework of accepted death penalty.
Thank you for reading; vote proposition.
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-03-31 02:20:08
| Speak Round
I can agree with my opponent insofar that the short rounds prevent us from really digging into this as a debate. I will offer a short rebuttal to my opponents final statement, although having spent most of the opening round debunking his first set of inaccuracies I don't intend to dwell on them for too long.
My opponent has, in my opinion, largely missed the point of this debate. He could have justifiably drawn attention to aspects of the financial cost saving, or to the prevention of prison suicides, to name but two, but rather he has sought to place the emphasis of his argument on increasingly shaky grounds.
"Framing is not an example but rather the context in which this debate happens: states that already allow the death penalty and by extension the Federal system".
- This is just a waffly way of saying he's setting the scene to better suit his argument. It's the debating equivalent of photoshopping your pictures to make your thighs seem less flabby.
For anyone who couldn't be bothered/didn't read all of my opponents argument, allow me to summarise...
' Prisoners are more likely to be in gangs in prison, so we should let them choose death. If they are not in a gang, they are probably a being raped or beaten up by the other prisoners. The victim's families may/may not prefer to see the criminal dead/ incarcerated, but i'll focus mainly on the tiny majority that apologise for their crimes and who achieve closure.'
My opponent has totally failed in providing even the vaguest semblance of an argument in support of the motion. Almost everything he presented is moot; so families may be happier to see the criminal executed, others less so. Some criminals may be more likely to engage in gang violence once sentenced to a life without parole, others less so.
I will now elaborate on why this remains an ill-conceived notion.
My opponent would have you believe that this proposition is as simple as offering the prisoners a choice similar to choosing dessert from a menu. The reality is far more complex. Criminals choosing to be executed would need to undergo a psycho-analytical exam to deem whether they are fit to make such a choice; an attorney would need to be present at all hearings relating to the determination of sentencing; provisions would need to be put in place to ensure no abuse of humans rights are taking place; adequate time allowance would need to be determined in order to allow a prisoner to change his or her mind before execution. All of these things would cost money, and lots of it.
Capital punishment cases already cost on average three times more than the equivalent life imprisonment case, and thats with a well established legal recourse. This proposition would be a paper-trail nightmare!
Let's not beat around the bush here, the proposition effectively calls for the legalising of euthanasia. The US has long protected the notion of the sanctity of life, and this measure would no doubt open the floodgate for other cases warranting assisted suicide. Why should we afford rights to the worst criminals that we don't to our war heroes or pensioners? A patient suffering with terminal illness cannot be permitted to end his/her own life, so it seems odd that we would permit assisted suicide in the case of criminals.
My opponent raises some of the issues relating to the realities of prison life, when in fact they aren't really relevant. The prison system isn't perfect, but rather than spend the money on something like this proposition in order to fix it, instead actually invest in improving the institution itself. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
This proposition won't solve anything. It's not a magic bullet for the issues regarding 'lifers'. It will cost the taxpayers money, at no benefit, it will open the floodgates for euthanasia in the US, and it will create a legal minefield to navigate in every case to which it is applied.
I urge you to let common sense prevail and reject the motion.
Return To Top | Posted:
2016-04-01 11:11:43
| Speak Round
@bifurcations thanks for the debate, apologies once again for any offence. Posted 2016-04-08 13:43:13
@IncorrigiblePerspective that's alright no offence was taken
I would like to apologise unreservedly to my opponent for referring to her in the masculine. It was an oversight on my part having not seen her profile. No offence was intended.Posted 2016-04-01 13:32:15