EDEB8 - Ultimate Online Debating
About Us   Debate    Judge   Forum
Views:
1740

That health insurance companies should cover sexual therapy for those who exhibit symptoms of non-consumation, pre-mature ejaculation, and ED

(PRO)
0 points
(CON)
WINNER!
2 points
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
Do to a bug, my computer lied to me about how much time I have left, and I can't write a first round. I pleaded with the mod to extend the debate by 4 hours, but the bug couldn't be fixed if it couldn't be seen, so I'm in a bad situation. I'll write an extended round after the following, but I'm humbly requesting that I don't get unfairly judged because of this predicament. 
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-14 21:24:32
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
Out of sympathy I'll leave my case for the second round also, giving my opponent an additional 7 days to come up with his case.

PLEASE report bugs when you see them. I don't know if there was a bug but claiming there was a bug yesterday that caused some sort of issue that apparently caused the time to be out by a couple of hours, and then pleading for more time on the debate as a result, will hardly work. I have given extra time whenever there has been a legitimate bug that was reproducible, but in countless debates I've done I haven't seen any time-related bugs on the site at all in roughly 6 months, so I'm sure the time code is at least reasonably stable. I also checked the time reports on the debate when I was notified of the bug moments ago, and everything was in order. So again, the point is, if you see a bug then report it at once.

Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-14 21:34:27
| Speak Round
Cross-Examination
admin: Just going to leave the CX as well. :)
Patriarch of Byzantium : I wouldn't mind using CX this round, but I guess we're starting the debate in round 2
admin: Well, you can ask me questions if you want. I don't mind.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Should health insurance companies be designed primarily to provide health insurance and make money?
admin: No
Patriarch of Byzantium : Should health insurance companies be designed primarily to give health insurance?
admin: No. There's a lot of assumptions in that question I reject.
Patriarch of Byzantium : There are no assumptions in questions. So you don't feel health insurance companies should be designed primarily to provide health insurance? If not, then what do you feel the primary purpose of health insurance companies should be?
admin: Yes there are, yes I do, and that question is equally assumption laden. My case is going to be that health insurance companies should not exist.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Would you concede that health insurance companies aren't easily going away?
admin: No
Patriarch of Byzantium : If health insurance companies were to remain in existence, and never go away, what would be your main concerns?
admin: I don't accept the assumptions of that question either, and I think it's kind of an unfair question to ask me to give essentially give you my entire case. Much of the point of neg not being allowed to introduce new substantive at the end is also to counterbalance pro not being able to rebut at the start, so you can't expect me to answer straight what my arguments will be if I concede one. You can be assured that in the next round I'll have several thousand characters of "main concerns" for you to ponder over.
Patriarch of Byzantium : You are finding ways to ignore my questions, which can be answered with a simple yes or no. I've even been fair enough to allow you to give longer and more in depth responses. What are your concerns with health insurance companies?
Patriarch of Byzantium : I feel like you're trying to avoid giving answers to my questions. I don't care how you respond, but it is essential that you give definite answers to my questions.
admin: "yes" or "no" are not concerns. I guess if you want me to give a really definitive answer, the resolution is what I'm "concerned" about in this debate in that I oppose it. But it really is a terrible and unfair question.
admin: I mean, how would you like it if I asked
admin: "What are all of your arguments in this debate?"
Patriarch of Byzantium : There's no such thing as an unfair question. I don't know why you can't tell me what concerns you have with health care companies. You can list them if you want.
admin: If there's no unfair question then logically there can be no unfair argument. That's too problematic for me sorry. For example if you were to run a semantic case to somehow turn the resolution into a tautology, that would be a serious issue for me. Also, your question was not asking what concerns I had with health care companies specifically. You've changed the question.
admin: I guess broadly it's fair to say: that they're poor providers of care to the vulnerable especially in the light of better alternatives. I'll talk about incentives, social responsibility, economic issues and probably a few other things in my case, space-permitting. But this is not to be taken as an exhaustive description of my case.
Patriarch of Byzantium : So your problem is that health insurance companies are bad at providing healthcare
Patriarch of Byzantium : For further clarification, you feel health insurance shouldn't exist?
admin: You know, I've noticed you make remarks on my answer before you ask a question to misrepresent what I was saying. I'd appreciate it if we just stuck to questions and answers.
admin: On your question, it depends on how you define "health insurance". I guess buying a safety vest ensures your safety and thus ongoing health, for example, and I think that should be legal.
Patriarch of Byzantium : I'm only asking questions. Just answer them. There are no tricks. If you think I misrepresent you, say "no" and move on.... sheesh. Is it a yes or no.
admin: How is "So your problem is that health insurance companies are bad at providing healthcare" a question?
Patriarch of Byzantium : Your problem might be me forgetting a question mark. That was intended as a question. Health Insurance: A type of insurance coverage that pays for medical and surgical expenses that are incurred by the insured. Health insurance can either reimburse the insured for expenses incurred from illness or injury or pay the care provider directly.
admin: Then you need an "IS" in that sentence. Like "So IS your problem is that health insurance companies are bad at providing healthcare?"
Patriarch of Byzantium : I forgot a question mark, but I though you would realize it is a question. Everything starting with so is a question, first rule in english.
admin: Not true. So there you go.
admin: Do you want me to ask some question based on that definition that wasn't phrased as a question?
Patriarch of Byzantium : Just stop the semantics and answer the questions. You're making this way more difficult than it has to be. I defined health insurance. Can you answer the question in that context
admin: Yes
admin: As in yes I can, and also yes I believe health insurance should be allowed.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Didn't you say earlier that you believe health insurance companies shouldn't exist?
admin: Yes I did. I stand by that statement and don't believe it's a contradiction in any way.
Patriarch of Byzantium : So you believe health insurance should exist, but not health insurance companies?
admin: According to that specific definition - which by the way includes all bank savings accounts - yes.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Who should pay for health insurance if not companies?
admin: Your premises are so weird in this line of questioning. Health insurance companies do not pay for health insurance anywhere in the world. Customers of health insurance companies do. Customers of any health insurance scheme will ultimately pay any costs incurred by that scheme.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Well, even though you're correct in that I phrased the question wrong, I'm not convinced that you didn't know what I mean. I also don't appreciate how you are sneaking in arguments when answering questions.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Who should pay for insurance coverage (if the insured needs it), if not health insurance companies? Or in other words, what should take the place of health insurance companies, if you still believe health insurance should exist?
Patriarch of Byzantium : I'm only asking questions. Please stop responding with unneeded tidbits. It is very annoying and inappropriate.
admin: Really? Only asking questions? Last 3 posts only had one post with questions to respond to, while the other two attacked my answers. The provider of any health insurance scheme covers the cost of the scheme. I'm not sure if I want to run a specific counter-model yet, but there are numerous alternatives - funds, state systems, private contracts etc.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Which alternative do you prefer?
Patriarch of Byzantium : I'm only asking questions. You are deriving arguments from my questions. Questions are not an argument. End of story.
admin: I'm not sure generally. It really depends a bit on where you want to set this debate.
admin: How is "I also don't appreciate how you are sneaking in arguments when answering questions." a question?
Patriarch of Byzantium : Would you like to establish an area in question? What about all of Europe as a model?
admin: It's your choice, not mine. Pro gets first pick on setting the debate.
Patriarch of Byzantium : It isn't. It is telling you aging to stop saying things that aren't answers to my questions. Stop, it's ridiculous.
Patriarch of Byzantium : I'm keeping the scenario broad then, since there is no area in question in the rules. In general, which alternative is the best?
admin: It really does depend on the society. There's no "general" answer for how society operates that I can give you. Short answer: I don't know.
admin: Is it not dishonest to say you're "only asking questions" when that statement itself is not a question? Is it ridiculous that I'm allowed to ask questions too? Do you now agree that there are some questions that one shouldn't ask in a CX?
Patriarch of Byzantium : 1) Fair enough. 2) No, any question is fair game in cross examination. If the question is an axiom being the exception, to which the responce should be pointing out the axiom
Patriarch of Byzantium : Do you believe that your alternatives; private contractors, funds, and state services, should provide coverage for ED, PE, and non-consumation??
admin: No. Both collectively and individually.
admin: Also, they're not my alternatives in this debate. They're examples of alternatives that might exist to your model. The reason why not is because they're not significant health issues. They're social issues at best. This has several flow on impacts that make covering them particularly problematic anyway.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Do you believe Erectile Dysfunction, Pre-Mature Ejaculation, and Non-Consumation are a result of physical or mental dysfunctions
Patriarch of Byzantium : Do you believe people would have better lives with or without ED, PE, and non-consumation?
admin: No, not always. No, not always. Also there's various complex issues with the effect of treatment on people's lives that might make treatment worse than living with it, both of which may be worse than living without it.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Can you give an example of a complex issue? Do you agree that pursuing forms of coverage is voluntary?
admin: Yes, and I intend to do so several times in this debate. No, not necessarily. Assuming you meant treatment though, rare exceptions aside, yes.
Patriarch of Byzantium : I did mean treatment. Do you agree that at least some people would benefit from recovering from PE, ED, and non-consumation?
Patriarch of Byzantium : Do you believe Erectile Dysfunction, Pre-Mature Ejaculation, and Non-Consumation are a result of physical or mental dysfunctions?
admin: Depends on what you call a benefit, which is very subjective. Second question sounds very familiar. Scroll a bit to see my answer again.
Patriarch of Byzantium : Would some people's life be "better" overall, if they were to cure ED, PE, and Non-Consumation. I can not understand your answer? Will you restate it please?
Patriarch of Byzantium : I'm asking for your subjective opinion. Hence why I'm questioning you.
admin: In my opinion - no. I don't get people who think these are real issues at all.

Return To Top | Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
Pro seems to have a knack for running into "site bugs" whenever it's his turn to post (this time it turned out that the "bug" was that his Chrome autocomplete for the login form had saved the wrong password under one version of his current username). I'm kind of convinced that it's a stall tactic so pro can have all the time they need to write out a ridiculously long case while providing me with one-third the time to respond to it, but never mind...

Oh well. Maybe we can have a one-round debate?

Return To Top | Posted:
2014-11-23 15:29:23
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
I didn't want to do a one round debate, and you didn't sign up for one either. You fully deserve to win this debate :D

Merry Christmas! 

Return To Top | Posted:
2014-12-01 13:48:28
| Speak Round
Cross-Examination
admin: Just posting so I get a notification if you ask me anything :)
Christmas Stag : I think continuing the debate was pointless. Discuss.
admin: This would be well suited to the comments
Christmas Stag : Well I've been wondering if one round debates should even be allowed, since they aren't actually a debate

Return To Top | Speak Round


View As PDF

Enjoyed this debate? Please share it!

You need to be logged in to be able to comment
BlackflagBlackflag
Yeah, I realize the latest bug looked extremely bad given the circumstances of the first.
That's why I didn't ask to extend the debate.
Posted 2014-11-25 06:55:43
nzlockienzlockie
So that first round CX was probably the most entertaining one I've seen so far...

I laughed out loud in parts. The fact that Round 2 started with a forfeit was also entertaining.
Posted 2014-11-23 15:20:06
BlackflagBlackflag
More specifics means less room for semantics. Something I've been having problems with lately.
Don't worry, that isn't likely to happen with you, although there is still no harm in doing so.

Specific resolutions probably benefit the Con side more than the Pro side.
Posted 2014-11-08 08:50:47
BlackflagBlackflag
Also, I wish the titles on these debates looked nicer.
Posted 2014-11-08 07:15:58
adminadmin
By which I mean, you really have framed this in the most specific resolution possible I think
Posted 2014-11-08 07:03:58
adminadmin
I wish this topic was shorter. Still think my topic's better on that ground alone. But I'll take it anyway. :D
Posted 2014-11-08 07:00:48
BlackflagBlackflag
Also, I wish the titles on these debates looked nicer.
Posted 2014-11-08 06:09:56
BlackflagBlackflag
I think "health" should be a topic, given the recent "health" debates
Posted 2014-11-08 06:09:34
The judging period on this debate is over

Previous Judgments

2014-12-17 04:16:53
S.H.Judge: S.H.
Win awarded to: admin

Feedback:
While I am unable to decide weather or not these bugs were intentional, I appreciate the sportsmanship on both sides of the debate. Simply because of the fact that Stag concedes admin wins, but all in all I hope to read more from both debaters, good luck with your computer and best of wishes to you both again, keep on debating guys!
1 user rated this judgement as a vote bomb
2 users rated this judgement as good
1 user rated this judgement as exceptional
0 comments on this judgement
2014-12-16 04:04:03
nzlockieJudge: nzlockie    TOP JUDGE
Win awarded to: admin

Rules of the debate

  • Text debate
  • Individual debate
  • 3 rounds
  • No length restrictions
  • Reply speeches
  • Uses cross-examination
  • Community Judging Standard (notes)
  • Forfeiting rounds does not mean forfeiting the debate
  • Images allowed
  • HTML formatting allowed
  • Rated debate
  • Time to post: 1 week
  • Time to vote: 1 week
  • Time to prepare: None
  • Time for cross-examination: 1 day
ED (erectile dysfunction) - inability of a man to maintain an erection sufficient for satisfying sexual activity

Non Consumation - inability to stay attracted to sexual partners

Premature Ejaculation (PE) -
ejaculation which always or nearly always occurs prior to or within about one minute