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That all forms of education should be free

(PRO)
1 point
(CON)
WINNER!
13 points
Natasha17Natasha17 (PRO)
Firstly I would like to say I don't know where you are basing this argument on which country as all are different so I think you may be basing it around the American education system but I dunno💁so I'll work with the American education system.


I don't know what the American system is but I've seen from internet friends that high school is basically from (uk) year 7 up to year 13.Now that in England means 
year 7-year 11=secondary school in England
 then 
year 12-year 13= college in England
So that means that college there is university here
Confusing I know
So basically we have to pay for university
You have to pay for college
I have no idea if you come out of college with a degree?  Like we would in university.



Okay so..
"As several recent studies have underscored, a college degree is a pathway to a more stable life, financially and otherwise, even for students who struggled in high school. Other studies show that there is no better short-term or long-term investment for the rest of society than higher education. For example, one study shows that new spending on public colleges, which would be sparked by an influx of more students, produces more economic activity than a similar-sized tax cut, or similar spending on roads and bridges. And, over their lives, college graduates smoke less, commit fewer crimes, draw less on social welfare programs, and generate more taxes."(http://www.nea.org/home/62740.htm)


That clearly explains my argument


And before you jump to the negatives read this:

"Those who oppose free public higher education roar that it would be a hardship on campuses, that it would mean more students and less money, that hundreds of faculty and staff would be fired. This is false. In Tennessee, which recently instituted free community college, they are busy hiring more faculty to teach the classes to all the new students thrilled about the opportunity to get a higher education."(from the same source as above)



And to end it on a high:

"In my view, education is essential for personal and national well-being. We live in a highly competitive, global economy, and if our economy is to be strong, we need the best-educated workforce in the world. We won’t achieve that if, every year, hundreds of thousands of bright young people cannot afford to go to college while millions more leave school deeply in debt. We need to ensure that every young person in this country who wishes to go to college can get the education that he or she desires, without going into debt and regardless of his or her family’s income."(https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanders-america-needs-free-college-now/2015/10/22/a3d05512-7685-11e5-bc80-9091021aeb69_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.03fd646951a4)




Beautiful 🙌

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-04-17 17:37:00
| Speak Round
Penrose stairsPenrose stairs (CON)
Pro claimed that making education free will make more college graduates. However, this is wrong. Making education free only means that students do not need to pay, but places for attending college is still the same, so the number of college graduates will not increase. The topic is not about increasing the number of college degrees.
If you want to help students who can't afford college/university, why not get financial aid instead?
Many college students have to work during studies to pay their food and housing, so they have less time for studying and thus perform less well in college, which lead to a poor job in the future, so providing free education is not enough to help poor students . The money which is used to give rich people free college education should be given to the poor students for their living. The resources of the government is limited, and they should be spent on the poor students in need, rather than providing everyone free education, including the rich.
Here are the problems caused by free education:
1. Students may change their study program for many times, wasting the government's money
As education is free, students may want to stay in college for many years to enjoy the facilities. Therefore, they change their program for many times, in order to stay in college for many years. 
2. Students are less motivated to study
If students has to pay for attending college, they would work harder because they don't want to waste the money. If college education is free,  students may take college education for granted, just skip lectures and tutorials, fail exams. 
Post graduate education should not be free. People do not need to get post graduate education to perform well in the workforce. Apart from having an undergraduate degree, communication skills, presentation skills and other soft skills are more important. It is true that college nowadays try to equip students with these skills, but workplace is the best place to practice these skills. The knowledge learnt in post graduate degrees are not very useful in the workplace, and they may not work in that field after they graduate. That's why it is unreasonable to ask taxpayers to pay for post graduate education.

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-04-18 13:57:40
| Speak Round
Cross-Examination
Penrose stairs: why are all your arguments copied from websites?
Natasha17: It's easier to get my point across if they are said by professional people... alongside that I'm also busy with assignments and my course..it's hard to find time to think about what I'm gotta type😂
Penrose stairs: Isn't providing financial aid to students in need better than free education?
Natasha17: I don't know what it is in America but in the UK we have financial provided 🤗 I agree
Penrose stairs: What is the point of giving rich people free education?
Penrose stairs: Why not spend the money on the poor students instead?
Penrose stairs: please respond me

Return To Top | Speak Round
Penrose stairsPenrose stairs (CON)
What is the point of giving rich people free education? Should we spend the money on the poor instead? Pro never replied to this because he/she admit that giving free education to each and every student is not a wise action. 
At the beginning of this debate, in round 1, pro is really eager to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor. Pro wants people to be able to get educated no matter what their family income is. But giving free education will only make the rich even richer, the poor even more poor. Poor students are still less likely to get to college or universities because they want to earn money for themselves and their family members as soon as possible. They have to get part time jobs to earn a living for themselves while studying, so they have less time to study, which make their results not as good as the rich students. 
This house believe that poor students should be given financial aid, and the amount of money they get should be enough for them to pay the fees in universities or college, as well as their daily expenses, so that they can study without worrying that their parents had to pay for their living when they are studying. However, rich students who can afford higher education and their daily expenses should not be provided free education because the government's resources is always limited, and it is important that it should be used on people who really need it.

Return To Top | Posted:
2018-05-06 03:34:00
| Speak Round


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Previous Judgments

2018-05-07 07:38:03
Alexandre The Thrice GreatJudge: Alexandre The Thrice Great
Win awarded to: Penrose stairs
Reasoning:
"If college education is free, students may take college education for granted, just skip lectures and tutorials, fail exams. "
But if we betted upon our own attendances within lecutres ...
-

. "We won’t achieve that if, every year, hundreds of thousands of bright young people cannot afford to go to college while millions more leave school deeply in debt. "

I can't help wondering indebted to whom? the college to the students for futhering the scholrly intents on educatonal missions or the students to the school for free education ...



Feedback:
I think however Penrose stairs has made more profit from the fully financially integrated Education that free education has been presented by Natasha17
1 user rated this judgement as a vote bomb
0 comments on this judgement
2018-05-07 22:12:11
Undovic88Judge: Undovic88
Win awarded to: Natasha17
Reasoning:
Penrose may won in other judges eyes- but here is how I see it. They based it completely on opinion and used quite an amount of bias while Natasha kept it fact wise.

Feedback:
Keep Bias out of debate. Keep opinion out of debate.
1 user rated this judgement as good
1 comment on this judgement
Natasha17Natasha17
Exactly 👍
Posted 2018-05-08 11:38:06
2018-05-08 23:35:15
GuitarKirbyJudge: GuitarKirby
Win awarded to: Penrose stairs
Reasoning:
Con presented their points more effectively and in a way that was easy to read and understand. Pro didn't seem to be sure of their own argument and failed to paraphrase outside sources in a strong way. I say this even as someone who disagrees vehemently with Con. I was glad of the two choices made to make the point; students often change their study programs when they are paying for their own college, so that made an excellent example.

Feedback:
To Pro, I suggest that you more carefully research your topic. You said many times that you "did not know" things about the American educational system or what your opponent was arguing in your opening statement. As you have the floor first, you get to decide what country you will be using as a point of comparison. Also keep note of the fact that many of these debates are random, which means that the topics are not chosen by your opponent or yourself. Wait until the end of opening statements to ask for clarification if you need it. You had some facts and quotes, but in debate, especially written debate, presentation is everything.

For Con, make sure that when you make a claim that can be objectively verified or not ("Students are less motivated to study") you have a number or outside source to back your claim. Debates can have emotional and moral arguments, but objective claims need to be verified, so make sure you use a source and cite them properly.
1 user rated this judgement as biased
1 user rated this judgement as constructive
0 comments on this judgement
2018-05-09 01:42:14
TheVengefulDeityJudge: TheVengefulDeity
Win awarded to: Penrose stairs
Reasoning:
When you start paying taxes, you start wanting the money you give away. The only part I find to be wrong is free college. Paying for your own education is important. It prepares you for other things you have to pay for later in life. The government doesn't have unlimited money and neither do I.
2 users rated this judgement as a vote bomb
0 comments on this judgement
2018-05-10 05:41:39
nzlockieJudge: nzlockie    TOP JUDGE
Win awarded to: Penrose stairs
Reasoning:
PRO forfeits the debate, so very difficult to get a win after that. They did make a case though, and engaged briefly in some Cross Examination, so it WAS possible to also compare arguments.
Unfortunately they lose in this regard as well.

There were three main reasons PRO lost this debate.
1. In their one constructive round they (openly) plagerised their entire case. There's nothing specifically against a rules about this but it's lazy, very bad form and goes against the spirit of the debate. I'm giving them a partial pass on this however, on the basis that I'm hoping it was only for their first round, and just to "set the stage" as it were.
2. They did not rebut CON's constructive points. CON made three separate points and these stand unopposed.
3. They conceded during the CX round. PRO's one point was that Free education is the preferred option to make education more attainable. CON asked whether Financial Aid was a better way, and PRO agreed that it was. Case closed.


Feedback:
CON: Your rebuttal to PRO's example of the TN College was not great. You basically said that there wouldn't be more grads because the class sizes would remain the same.
This is true on the surface of things but it would so easy for PRO to come back and suggest that class sizes could increase. The TN College was already hiring new staff, so things were expanding. Your rebuttal should have included the COST of increasing the class sizes as sort of a pre-emptive strike - it would have had more impact that way.
I LOVED that your rebuttal pointed out that the cost of putting these classes on remains. That's an important point. The fact you made it now means you can come back to it, and burn your opponent if they don't address it. Nicely done.

Secondly, your formatting made this debate hard to read, which lessened the impact your points could have had.
Consider using spaces between paragraphs, font colour, headings... that kind of thing.
It'll make your points stand out more, and make it easier for judges to read.

PRO: Lots of stuff to work on here.
1. You are PRO, that means YOU set the definitions. Want to make the debate based on the UK system? Go for it! You're not allowed to make it impossible for CON, and you don't want to skew it TOO obviously towards yourself, but as PRO, you get this one little advantage - so take advantage of it!

2. If you are going to paste long quotes, then at least paraphrase them. Many judges have a policy of only reading a quote if the opposing side addresses it. Quotes are supposed to SUPPORT your argument, not make it for you.
If you don't have time to write the argument yourself, don't take the debate!

3. Don't Forfeit, and don't concede. Be very wary of agreeing with the opposition on anything actually! That's not to say that you can't ever concede anything, but if it hurts your case - don't concede it!
That's kind of the whole point of debate.

4. If you reread your opening paragraph from round one, it basically reads like a stream on consciousness from your brain. I understand that YOU probably don't care, but for anyone else reading this - don't do this.
Get the stuff out of your brain and onto the screen, but once it's there - reword it until it looks coherent.

"I have no idea if you would come out with a degree?" - Google it!
Don't leave that on the screen, it just makes you look unprepared.

5. Even though I'm being pretty harsh, I did like your formatting better, and despite the fact that it seemed scatterbrained and half thought out, I actually did like your tone as well.
You need to find a way to keep that same conversational tone, but actually say salient points with it.
Check out some of Admin's debates - he's very good at that.
They sound like they're straight from his head, but I bet you he's worded and reworded each statement.
1 user rated this judgement as biased
1 comment on this judgement
nzlockienzlockie
Haha "Biased". I like that.
Posted 2018-05-15 08:41:05
2018-05-10 23:51:31
CaptAinJudge: CaptAin
Win awarded to: Penrose stairs
Reasoning:
I'm utterly speechless. Natasha17's argument is absolutely BONKERS.
1 user rated this judgement as a vote bomb
0 comments on this judgement

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