EDEB8 - Ultimate Online Debating
About Us   Debate    Judge   Forum
Views:
6068

Hezbollah is more powerful than the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria

(PRO)
WINNER!
4 points
(CON)
0 points
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
Hezbollah has areas of operation based from Iraq to Saudi Arabia.
1. A strong military
2. A strong political body
3. Respect and/or popular support

- Hezbollah has a stronger military than the nation of Lebanon, and has stalemated Israel several times. They have over 40,000 large caliber missiles
- Hezbollah is a political party, with diplomats, radio shows, and a TV network. It has 12 members in parliament and 2 cabinet members.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBWEQpsFTFs


Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 10:57:53
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
ISIS has:
1. A strong military, that has overrun and conquered more land than Hezbollah ever has
2. A political and religious body that completely governs the affairs of their citizens
3. A powerful online social media presence through the means of their Twitter app
4. Popular local support - 95% of funds raised with no outside funding
5. Money - richest jihad group worldwide
6. Equipment - US Blackhawk helicopters, Stinger missiles etc

Overall, Hezbollah has no clear-cut advantage
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 14:36:54
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. ISIS's goal isn't to conquer land. Power isn't who can piss the most people off. Hezbollah has a stronger military than Lebanon. If they wanted land, they could take it.
2. Power isn't dominance. Saying ISIS is powerful because its citizens are governed entirely is faulty. ISIS has actually lost several battles recently.
3. They have a twitter, but not radio, TV, and politicians.
4. Hezbollah is networked, with dozens of friends. Allied with Iran and Syria.
5. Money that is worthless
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 14:50:22
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. No, the original founding goal of ISIS was to conquer Iraq, which then expanded into a wider caliphate. Hence the name Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.
2. Hezbollah has lost battles in their history too. There can be no question ISIS dominates the land it controls (Mosul etc)
3. S. Media proven more effective at reaching their goals ie Baghdad trending brutal pictures
4. So what? Neither state would intervene if Hezbollah is attacked.
5. Why?
6. Pro dropped this point.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 15:23:07
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
ISIS will ultimately fail. ISIS isn't a well structured organization. It is a movement. Movements lost traction over time without three things....
1. Friends
2. Money
3. People's support.
ISIS doesn't have friends, being torn apart by six nations, isn't making the money it needs to sustain its combat necessities, and is at war with 20 factions. It is a Goliath being eaten away from inside. Hezbollah, is sustainable. It has friends and allies, lots of money, and are popular with shiites
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 15:31:26
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
ISIS has:
1 - friends in all of the local sunni nations (http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/08/374537/americas-biggest-allies-funding-isis/)
2 - significantly more money than Hezbollah, and continues to amass money via ransoming etc (note contradiction with round 2 point 5)
3 - incredible popularity in their own territories (as proven previously)

Thus ISIS meets pro's own test for a sustainable movement, like Hez.

Also, ISIS loves cats. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsqZSkwCAAEaVWt.jpg
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 19:41:38
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. Isis is a state built on a war economy. It only survives as long as its in war, something that isn't sustainable. Hezbollah has the power of flexibility and peace. ISIS is at war with
- Iran
- Syria
- Al-Qaeda
- Taliban
- Turkey
- Iran
- Turkey

2. Who can ISIS spend its money on? The average equipment is one rifle per body, compared to Hezbollahs tanks, missiles, and body armor per soldier
3. How was it proven? They're being killed in their own territory. Hezbollah is not.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 23:38:04
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. No, it's based on selling captured resources such as oil from fields. So long as these resources remain under ISIS control they have sustainable income. Note that several states it is officially at war with (ie Turkey, Al-Qaeda) have also given it lots of material support.
2. They spend it on weapons. See these infographics from their corporate reports: http://tinyurl.com/oxp92g6
3. By my previous analysis that most of their funding comes from local support. Locals fear Iran more than ISIS.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 23:47:04
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. I read the link. It was horribly false upon investigation.

2. I have concluded several things from that.
- Hezbollah has more members
- Hezbollah has about 20,000 more mortars (NI mis)
- Hezbollah has higher quality guns and 10,000's more than ISIS

3. Which goes to my point exactly. Iran, Syria, and Iran are allies. If people fear Iran more than ISIS, then you are conceding they fear Hezbollah's connection.
Hezbollah has full armies in Israel, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Libya
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-08 23:58:17
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. Assertion, not evidence. Prove it.
2. Annual operations is not operational capability. ISIS isn't just stalemating one country, they're actually driving Hezbollah, Syria, Iraq and others back right now. Obviously they have many more members, rockets etc than they use annually. In addition, the recent capture of large weapons caches has given them far superior arms ie Scud missiles.
3. They fear them not for military power but religiously/ideologically. They pray ISIS destroys Hezbollah.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 00:06:05
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. Can't without more characters. Double cite it for more credibility.
2. Hezbollah hasn't deployed troops in ISIS territory yet, so how can you make that false assertion? Hezbollah has standard combat suits and high grade weapons from drug cartels. ISIS is poorly equipped, and has a meager arsenal compared to Hez. 40,000 NI mis. That was false
3. Really? Iraq is a Shiite country :)
4. Iran founded Hezbollah. The leaders are decedent's of Muhammed. Iraq and Southern Syria love Hezbollah

Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 00:15:29
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. Sure. But you still need to make a counter-argument, because as well as cite it I also provided the argument in-round. http://tinyurl.com/q2t9edd
2. ISIS has recently moved into Lebanon. Hezbollah retreated. Their army is very well equipped after their equipment seizures. http://tinyurl.com/oj3fcu3
3+4. The Iraqi government does not always represent the Iraqi people. ISIS is sunni, and they typically force their citizens to convert if they are not already. Such is why ISIS is fighting Iraq.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 00:23:21
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. ISIS doesn't have sustainable income. Not on the level needed to fight foreign advisers and several governments.
2. Your own link says that ISIS moved into the north. Hez. is in the extreme south.
3. Tell me how a organization of 7000 armed personnel, will convert 30 million people into Sunni?

Facts
- The Iraqi military has 230,000 more troops than ISIS
- Hezbollah has about 40,000 more members, in its army alone
- Unlike ISIS, Hezbollah recieves training and military grade weapons
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 00:37:47
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. More assertion, not argument. Prefer my analysis of why captured resources yield sustainable income. ISIS have more income than Hezbollah and have been very consistent year to year.
2. Patently false. North and extreme south are the two areas where Hezbollah operates because they're the two parts of Lebanon with a Shi'a majority. See map: http://tinyurl.com/lxmh3fs
3. By mass executing and imposing a religious tax, which is what they've been doing very effectively already for a long time.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 15:59:53
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. ISIS is not in the south. The link says they have ONE town in the north
2. 7000 people can't convert 30 million
3. You dropped my point. Hez. (wrong before) has 80,000 members. ISIS has 7000
4. Iraq has 240,000 armed troops, Syria has over 220,000, and Hez. has a larger military than Argentina/lebanon
5. You dropped my point. Hez. has alliances, training, and steady income
6. You dropped my point. Your source proves Hez. has 20,000 more mortars and 40,000 more missiles (ISIS has none)
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 16:35:24
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. ISIS is not fighting Hez. - Hez. is a local militia and government - ISIS is a vast theocracy made up of fighters from the best camps in Yemen, Tunisia etc
2. Restating a point doesn't refute rebuttal
3. Actually Hez. only has 1000 full-time members and fewer fighters (http://tinyurl.com/od8y43l)
4. # of troops is meaningless in combat
5. Refuted in R4
6. Actually source shows more rocket attacks than Hez. And I've already shown they have better missiles - see http://tinyurl.com/n2dnukr
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 21:44:43
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. You said ISIS was driving out hez. in R6. Backtracking
2. How can 7000 convert or maintain control over 30 million with a tax?
3. According to Israel's government, Hez. has over 50,000 soldiers in Syria alone. It has 20,000 on the border of Israel and 10,000 reserve (http://www.nationalreview.com/the-feed/342989/israel-iran-hezbollah-have-50000-man-army-syria)
4. Power is in numbers. 80,000 fighters will trump 7000 any day
5. No it wasn't
6. Your source said nothing of hez
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 22:50:20
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. I said Hez. retreating from ISIS. That's different
2. How can a few hundred congresspeople control all the USA? Ideology and tax
3. My source was independent, yours has every reason to try to make Israelis afraid to prop up military there
4. So then why is ISIS continually driving back Iraq and Syria simultaneously?
5. Yes, R8 point 5 just repeated R3's case
6. Last year - ISIS 350 rocket attacks (my source), Hez. 5 rocket attacks (http://tinyurl.com/lepbxle)

Last round - good luck!
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-09 23:05:25
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
1. They have one undefended town. They never engaged
2. The congress represents the people's beliefs. 7000 sunni can not rule 21 million shia. It is equivalent to Australia ruling China
3. The IDF is legally liable for its statistics. I guarantee you that Hez has 80,000 soldiers
4. Power isn't measured in who shoots more missiles, rather than who can.
5. Hez has the incredible advantage of diplomacy and numbers
6. The IDF Chief of Staff (gatz) has said Hez. is stronger than ALL Arab armies
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-10 00:36:41
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
1. So my point stands. Pro concedes ISIS driving Hez. back, even if only out of one town, without being driven back. ISIS is doing the same to many other armies at the same time.
2. ISIS leaders represent their peoples beliefs too, as shown by donations
3. IDF stats can't be proven or disproven definitively, but they are not independent
4. ISIS can shoot SCUD missiles, Hez. can't. More attacks is one form of influence/power too.
5. Both rebutted earlier
6. As they would since Hez. beat them
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-10 11:33:01
| Speak Round
adminadmin (CON)
In summary, we agree ISIS has more:
> land
> resources
> income
> money
> effective marketing
> success in conquest

ISIS probably has more:
> advanced weapons

Hez. probably has more:
> foreign allies (though totally ineffective/unhelpful)

Estimates vary on:
> Troop numbers

Hez. and ISIS are completely different organizations.
Hez. is a local militia.
ISIS is a vast movement.

But on capability and present influence, neither has an overwhelming advantage over the other.
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-10 11:39:26
| Speak Round
BlackflagBlackflag (PRO)
Hezbollah has
More support than ISIS
Allies w. active support
Media Influence
Weapons
Politicians
Members (8:1)
Larger span of influence (about 10 countries)
Strongest Arab Army
4 times the missiles
A place on the world stage
Clear win
Return To Top | Posted:
2014-08-10 11:50:41
| Speak Round


View As PDF

Enjoyed this debate? Please share it!

You need to be logged in to be able to comment
adminadmin
So you're saying ISIS isn't a Mujhadeen army? Lol.

Al Q exists, AQI doesn't. AQI merged some years ago into the MSC, who in turn merged into ISIS. See any basic history on ISIS: even Wikipedia has this detail. I never said ISIS was Al Qaeda, because Al Q is much more than an Iraqi operation. Syrian Al Q aligned forces, for example, have always rejected ISIS. In fact most of Al Q hasn't thought much of ISIS since their alliance with Boko Haram.

"Show a lack of evidence."
Lack of evidence does not prove it's a lie though.

"We have full evidence and combat reports."
Then show it. All you've shown is the opinion of the IDF and those who have vested interests to trust them.

"The Lebanese government also affirms around my number. Are you going to deny every major body that disagrees with you? That is also Hezbollah's admission."
Now THAT would be evidence I would accept. Please, feel free to enlighten me where they said this.

If they did say this mind you, they are the stupidest retards in the world. How on earth can an army like Hezbollah, whose members swear to not even tell their own family they are fighters and whose key strength is in their secrecy, with even their own network protocol, give away their true combat strength?

"I challenge you to prove what you said."
OK fine... http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2011/09/how_many_al_qaeda_fighters_are.php

"Show a source that says they aren't a full time army."
I cited it in the debate. They have 1,000 people full-time coordinating military activities, and the rest are militia troops.

"Source where Israel says this."
They obviously wouldn't say what their methodology is because it's based on spying. If you give away details of how you spy on Hezbollah that destroys your spy network. Similarly you can't prove your contrary claim. I was saying what I believe, honestly, is the cause of the discrepancy.

"When 20 people say x is true and 1 person says x is false, humans view the 20 as reality until proven false."
Most people prefer to call this induction. Cognitive reality implies biocentricity, something very different.

For me, it matters more how the 20 people arrived at their conclusion and what motives they might have to get it wrong. Israel has a lot of friends on the internet and is well able to control the media narrative. They've been doing that for a long time - just look at the present Gaza conflict. I've seen some very interesting research on how the early media put equal focus on Hamas as the catalyst for the war (yeah right) as on the fact that hundreds of Palestinians were actually being killed. Just because almost every major news agency in the world was guilty of that, since Palestine obviously had trouble getting the message out and reporters were barred from combat zones, does not make it true.

"I was LMAO when you said Al-Qaeda in Pakistan."
http://warontherocks.com/2014/02/al-qaeda-is-alive-and-well-in-afghanistan-and-pakistan/
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2014/05/al_qaeda_in_afghanis.php
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/opinion/17-Jun-2014/al-qaeda-in-pakistan
... honestly I'm LMAO that a self-proclaimed "very educated on Arab politics" person says Al Q has no presence in Pakistan.
Posted 2014-08-10 12:30:32
BlackflagBlackflag
Admin, in all seriousness, I'm very educated on Arab politics. You are continuing to pull things out of the air. I don't know where you're getting these zany theories. I was LMAO when you said Al-Qaeda in Pakistan. That line clearly showed you weren't saying true things.
Posted 2014-08-10 12:08:41
BlackflagBlackflag
"The way I honestly see it: ISIS is a movement to establish a country. Hezbollah is an organization."
Agreed
/
"ISIS the movement began with the merger of Al Qaeda in Iraq, al-Tawhid, ISI and the Mujahideen Shura Council"
This is again FALSE. Al-Qaeda has kicked out ISIS. There was no merger. Stop saying false things. Al-Tawhid didn't merge with ISIS. The Mujhadeen army and council are at war with ISIS. I don't know where you're pulling this BS from.

"Al Qaeda operates in cells with decentralized command. "
Command has weakened, for sure, but all leaders swear fealty to Zawahiri. Al-Nusra and Al-Shabaab take direct orders from him.

"My point was that AQI still is a part of ISIS because AQI no longer exist"
The Al-Qaeda network has 35,000 members. It most certainly exists, and is 5 times larger than ISIS. Stop saying false things.

"it's all ISIS now"
This is a lie. Al- Nusra alone has about 15,000-20,000 members. Al-Shabaab has 3500. ISIS is not Al-Qaeda.

"You can't sue the senate for lying unless you can prove their claims are a lie"
-_-.................... It is really quite easy. Show a lack of evidence. We have full evidence and combat reports. You are denying this statistic because it demolishes your case. Own up to that. Hezbollah has 80,000 members, Iraq has 240,000, Al-Qaeda has around 35,000, and ISIS has 7000.

"Irantracker is an AEI project, who happen to be both pro-Israel and pro-foreign intervention. I mean, the AEI even blasted Obama for not intervening more against ISIS in the recent air strikes."
The Lebanese government also affirms around my number. Are you going to deny every major body that disagrees with you? That is also Hezbollah's admission. Seriously, just stop. It is pissing me off that you can say "x is false because I believe w,y,z,a,b,c,d,e are ALL biased"

"We can argue whether Al Qaeda has a significant figure in Afghanistan/Pakistan another time."
There is nothing to discuss. You stated something that was absolutely untrue. I'm confident that you're making things up without researching them now. I challenge you to prove what you said.

"Hezbollah does have a huge militia, but they are not full-time soldiers. They are part time soldiers ready to fight when required."
This is absolutely false. You are saying things that are BS. Show a source that says they aren't a full time army. They have 80,000 full time soldiers. Tell me where you are pulling this BS.

" Israel measures a Hezbollah soldier by whether they would fight for Hezbollah if Israel were to invade Lebanon"
Your making this up. Source where Israel says this.

"Opinions are pretty clearly not reality, because one of our opinions must be false."
Cognitive reality. When 20 people say x is true and 1 person says x is false, humans view the 20 as reality until proven false.



Posted 2014-08-10 12:03:31
adminadmin
I don't know anybody called Lars Dobberton King. He sounds like a jerk. Nothing like Lars Dobbertin-King I'm sure.

The way I honestly see it: ISIS is a movement to establish a country. Hezbollah is an organization. ISIS the movement began with the merger of Al Qaeda in Iraq, al-Tawhid, ISI and the Mujahideen Shura Council. They continue to organize but towards a common goal.

Al Qaeda operates in cells with decentralized command. If al-Zawahiri gives a command, AQI does not listen because although al-Zawahiri is the leader of Al Qaeda overall, he is not the leader of the Iraqi cell. My point was that AQI still is a part of ISIS because AQI no longer exists - it's all ISIS now. Al-Nusra's fighting of ISIS does not diminish that.

We can argue whether Al Qaeda has a significant figure in Afghanistan/Pakistan another time.

You can't sue the senate for lying unless you can prove their claims are a lie. Hezbollah does not reveal its true strength for obvious reasons, so they can't prove what figure is true, so they can't prove the senate is false. Just like the senate can't prove that their figure is true. Thus a judge would rule that it's a matter of opinion and dismiss the suit. Every independent inquiry confirms that they have less. Irantracker is an AEI project, who happen to be both pro-Israel and pro-foreign intervention. I mean, the AEI even blasted Obama for not intervening more against ISIS in the recent air strikes.

Hezbollah does have a huge militia, but they are not full-time soldiers. They are part time soldiers ready to fight when required. They do occasional patrols and watches, but they also tend to fields or work in factories. Israel measures a Hezbollah soldier by whether they would fight for Hezbollah if Israel were to invade Lebanon, but I'm counting the number who are currently doing nothing but pointing guns at people. This explains the discrepancy in the statistic entirely.

Opinions are pretty clearly not reality, because one of our opinions must be false.

"The correct term would be middle power."
I was just copying your term. The semantics don't matter.

Also - data urls don't work on edeb8 (security issue). :)
Posted 2014-08-10 11:25:25
BlackflagBlackflag
Damn, it did post :(
Posted 2014-08-10 11:09:40
BlackflagBlackflag
Bug Report: My comment didn't post

"About the Al Q. thing, none of the organizations that went into ISIS have quit"
ISIS was a member of Al-Qaeda. They were kicked out. There are no organizations in ISIS. Please name one, because ISIS isn't a network. It was once a part of Aysam's network, but again, was kicked out.

" So Al Qaeda in Iraq is still part of ISIS"
Completely false. ISIS was kicked out of Al-Qaeda. Al Nusra, double the size, is now at war with ISIS. ISIS is not Al-Qaeda anymore. They denounced Ayman.

"but Al Qaeda in Pakistan has shunned them"
Al-Qaeda hasn't been in Pakistan since 2011. The Al-Qaeda that were there were fleeing with Osama bin Laden following Tora Bora. They only have 40 people in Afghanistan. Zero in Pakistan. Once again false.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2011/09/how_many_al_qaeda_fighters_are.php

"Senate wants to send money in the form of military aid to Israel so must find ways to justify that spending. Ultimately a lot of it is ideologically and culturally motivated."

- Non partisian Iran Tracker says the same thing. Reason(opinions) = Reality
There is more reason and opinions on the table than lars dobberton king. When 12 people say one thing and one person says they're lying, we are forced to accept the reality of the dozen people. If not, then we would have to believe that one guy who thinks Bush bombed the twin towers.

The United States Senate can be sued by lying. Same with the Israeli and Lebanese government. If the disparity in numbers were correct of course.
Posted 2014-08-10 11:09:11
BlackflagBlackflag
Voters: Nothing in the comments should reflect in your vote
Posted 2014-08-10 10:58:22
BlackflagBlackflag
One last time for fun. This is ISIS
?ve=1&tl=1

These are the people fighting ISIS. Syria
data:image/jpeg;base64,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

Iraq


Iran


Hezbollah


When the chief of staff of the most technologically advanced army in the Middle East claims Hezbollah is the strongest Arab army, I tend to believe (note, Iran and Turkey aren't Arab) him. ISIS doesn't have a political wing, and its military is very loosely organized. Whereas Hezbollah has a strong political body with a professional army trained and modeled after Iranians elite revolutionary guard. Which is its foreign intervention force.
Posted 2014-08-10 10:57:15
BlackflagBlackflag
"About the Al Q. thing, none of the organizations that went into ISIS have quit"
What? There are no organizations in ISIS. It broke away from Al-Qaeda, denouncing leader Ayman. Al-Qaeda is a network which included ISIS. Not the other way around. ISIS, as I said, is actually smaller than central base member Al-Nusra by two times.

" So Al Qaeda in Iraq is still part of ISIS"
This is completely false. Ayman kicked ISIS our of Al-Qaeda. Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda's largest sub group, is fighting ISIS. Al-Qaeda was an alliance of terrorist groups under one command structure. Which was Osama bin Laden up until 2011.

"but Al Qaeda in Pakistan has shunned them"
Al-Qaeda hasn't been in Pakistan for years. They only have 40 people in Afghanistan. They have none in Pakistan. The Pakistan Al-Qaeda only consisted of members who fled from Tora Bora with Osama bin Laden. They were exterminated in 2011, before the Syrian Civil War. ISIS wasn't popularized until it joined the National Revolution Alliance.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2011/09/how_many_al_qaeda_fighters_are.php

"Senate wants to send money in the form of military aid to Israel so must find ways to justify that spending. Ultimately a lot of it is ideologically and culturally motivated."
Three things to say to this......
1. If the government lies, the senate can be sued. It has happened in this context before. Irantracker, a well cited group, also affirms that Hezbollah has around that membership.
2. Considering how many hezbollah are on the border of Israel, your statistic is 100% false.
3. By using the rule of cognition, the source is true. Reason(opinions) = Reality
In laymans terms, when a dozen groups say Hezbollah has 80,000 members, we are to believe them before Lars Dobberton King.

"More like Hezbollah is A superpower"
The correct term would be middle power. Giovanni Botero actually made the classifications.

I hope you are playing devils advocate to be brutally honest. I challenge you to find two expert opinions that say hezbollah isn't more powerful than ISIS. Observe pictures.


vs.


This

vs this


These


vs this


I'll show you the comparison one last time



ISIS is an outnumbered millitia who has ran into some sucess taking weapon caches to the north. Hezbollah is a professional army with state of the art technology and training, outnumbering ISIS 8:1
Posted 2014-08-10 10:47:54
adminadmin
Yeah, I suppose to the rest of the world it's called the Israel-Lebanon War because territorial integrity is a big thing in the west, while in the middle east the approach to borders is more like a wild west situation. It does annoy me though.

About the Al Q. thing, none of the organizations that went into ISIS have quit - they have all just been excluded from other international terrorist networks whom they were previously aligned with. So Al Qaeda in Iraq is still part of ISIS, but Al Qaeda in Pakistan has shunned them. Not that it matters much because ISIS' global recruitment strategy is ridiculous compared with other groups.

"Again, it works in out interests how?"
Senate wants to send money in the form of military aid to Israel so must find ways to justify that spending. Ultimately a lot of it is ideologically and culturally motivated.

"Hezbollah is the superpower among terrorist groups and radical shiite governments."
More like Hezbollah is A superpower.

Anyway, I'll leave these comments for the actual debate.
Posted 2014-08-10 09:21:18
BlackflagBlackflag
Don't you find it intresting though, that Israel's wars with Hezbollah are titled as the "Israel-Lebanon" war?
Posted 2014-08-10 01:34:56
BlackflagBlackflag
Forgive me. I don't like using the word "terrorist". Subjective as hell!
Posted 2014-08-10 01:33:59
BlackflagBlackflag
"Your senate are the bankrollers of the Israelis. They need to justify wasting your money just as much as Israel need to justify their figures."
Again, it works in out interests how?

"Hez. controls PARTS of Lebanon. It does not control the whole country"
I'm aware. Its military does. Hezbollah is the superpower among terrorist groups and radical shiite governments.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:31:50
BlackflagBlackflag
The main combatants in the war are Al-Nusra and the Free Syria Army. Al-Qaeda had 30,000 personnel. Al-Nusra and ISIS made up a sect called Central Base. Al-Nusra being three times the size of ISIS. After ISIS ignored Al-Qaeda's orders, they were kicked from the organization. Al-Nusra is all that is left of Central Base, having about 15,000-25,000 members in Syria and Iraq.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:29:46
adminadmin
ISIS only fought 2 major battles before 2014 because the group was only started a short time earlier. It grew out of the joining of a number of other movements including the local branch of Al Qaeda, who have been fighting there since the days of Saddam. The structure is all the same, and the weaponry/tactics are inherited.

Your senate are the bankrollers of the Israelis. They need to justify wasting your money just as much as Israel need to justify their figures.

Lebanon too does not currently have 130,000 people shooting guns at people.

Hez. controls PARTS of Lebanon. It does not control the whole country.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:29:37
BlackflagBlackflag
ISIS only had about 4000 members before they pushed into Iraq. Al-Nusra,FSA, and the Mujahadeen brigade are extremely larger than ISIS. That statement shows a lack of understanding on the war. ISIS only fought in two battles before 2014
Posted 2014-08-10 01:26:09
BlackflagBlackflag
The US congress affirmed in a senatorial law that Hezbollah was stronger than Lebanon's army as well. Lebanon has 130,000 soldiers. Was our senate lying as well?
http://www.worldsecuritynetwork.com/Terrorism-Broader-Middle-East/Smith-Jr.-W.-Thomas/Hezbollah-%E2%80%9Cfive-times%E2%80%9D-stronger-than-it-was-during-Israeli-war

Parliament doesn't rule Lebanon. Hezbollah does. Hezbollah is 5 times stronger than it was in 2006. It was called the Second Lebanon War, yet Hezbollah was the only armed force fighting in Lebanon. There has been trouble distinguishing Lebanon from Hezbollah lately.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:24:18
adminadmin
Why would the Israel Defense Force lie about Hezbollahs armed strength?
Because they need to defend their policy of maintaining a huge garrison, conscription etc.

Your source, again, cites only Israeli, not independent sources.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:21:55
adminadmin
In fact I'd say ISIS is more involved in Syria than Hez.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:20:49
BlackflagBlackflag
Why would the Israel Defense Force lie about Hezbollahs armed strength? Having trouble finding a different source, but this is the second one I've showed that proves Israel has at least 50,000 in Syria
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/14/iran-hezbollah-force-syrian-regime
Posted 2014-08-10 01:20:30
adminadmin
ISIS has fought a lot of battles there too. ISIS is probably the main reason the rebellion in Syria is even still going (quite possibly along with US assistance, even if slightly indirect).
Posted 2014-08-10 01:20:27
BlackflagBlackflag
They've fought in a lot of battles in the Syrian Civil War. They travel alongside the Syrian Army as special infantry. At one point, they had about 20,000 soldiers in both Homs and Allepo at once.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:18:26
adminadmin
Not even that article says 70,000, but generally I don't believe sources that come from a military formally at war with Hez.
Posted 2014-08-10 01:18:21
BlackflagBlackflag
............. Hezbollah has 70,000 on active duty. This is a fact.
http://www.thetower.org/article/dont-be-fooled-hezbollah-is-bigger-and-badder-than-ever/
Posted 2014-08-10 01:16:27
adminadmin
Active on duty at all times? No. Able to be called up if needed is something else ;)
Posted 2014-08-10 01:01:18
BlackflagBlackflag
Lars, I can assure you that Hezbollah has more than 1000 fighters.
Posted 2014-08-10 00:38:01
BlackflagBlackflag
Damn, I screwed up again. Stronger than lebanon, not larger. They are larger than Argentina though
Posted 2014-08-09 16:38:38
adminadmin
Usually the idea is that the issues don't become too complex, although of course the character limits work two ways.

Also, I'll post my next round in the morning, I'm too tired right now.
Posted 2014-08-09 00:46:05
BlackflagBlackflag
I would of rather done a quick debate on something simple
Posted 2014-08-09 00:44:33
BlackflagBlackflag
I hate it
Posted 2014-08-09 00:44:09
adminadmin
I think my favorite thing about these debates is that you need to learn to make your argument quickly, persuasively and accurately all at once. There's just so little room for error.
Posted 2014-08-09 00:42:04
BlackflagBlackflag
Sorry, I was brutally wrong. Hezbollah has about 80,000 more members than ISIS if I do believe. A 7:1 ratio
Posted 2014-08-09 00:40:10
BlackflagBlackflag
Damn, I keep repeating countries!!!
Posted 2014-08-09 00:00:57
BlackflagBlackflag
Hezbollah declared war on ISIS two days ago. Inspiration behind this thread.
Posted 2014-08-08 15:32:15
BlackflagBlackflag
Just putting this out there, but in real life, the resolution is pretty one sided to an expert. I admire your will to jump into debates though. I can't really stress points in such little characters.
Posted 2014-08-08 14:53:15
adminadmin
Go! ;)
Posted 2014-08-08 08:31:11
The judging period on this debate is over

Previous Judgments

2014-08-12 11:05:45
nzlockieJudge: nzlockie    TOP JUDGE
Win awarded to: Blackflag
Reasoning:
Tough debate to score. In the end I was convinced by PRO that Hezbollah had more POTENTIAL power. I don't agree that power can be determined by figures alone, but in this case, PRO convinced me that the figures were weighted sufficiently as to hand the win to Hezbollah.
PRO was actually losing until he made his Round 3 argument. Making me look at ISIS as a movement was a good move on his part.
Also convincing was the fact that Hezbollah has so much power not merely related to military strength. CON pointed out that ISIS have this too, but PRO convinced me that it is to a lesser degree.

Feedback:
PRO should be wary of equating sheer numbers with power. In this debate, I was left with the impression that ISIS has demonstrated more power, despite having lesser numbers. Hezbollah may have the numbers but I was not left convinced that it was a straight translation.
As explained above, I WAS ultimately convinced that the depth for Hezbollah was such that even if their numbers were not a powerful as ISIS, the depth was enough to compensate and leave them as being the last one standing.
1 user rated this judgement as exceptional
1 user rated this judgement as constructive
0 comments on this judgement

Rules of the debate

  • Text debate
  • Individual debate
  • 10 rounds
  • 500 characters per round
  • Reply speeches
  • No cross-examination
  • Community Judging Standard (notes)
  • Forfeiting rounds does not mean forfeiting the debate
  • No images
  • No HTML formatting
  • Rated debate
  • Time to post: 3 days
  • Time to vote: 5 days
  • Time to prepare: None
Just attempting a quick debate with 10 rounds.