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America is worse off because slavery happened

(PRO)
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(CON)
WINNER!
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The RedneckThe Redneck (PRO)
P1- Without Slavery America Would Have Less Black People.

As many as 90% of black people in the United States are descended from slaves. I don't really think my opponent will dispute this fact. http://www.oread.ku.edu/Oread05/Feb18/slavery.html

P2- America Would Be Better Off Without Blacks

 One way to dramatically reduce the crime rate in The United States would be to get rid of the black population. With a significantly lower proportion of blacks in the population there would be 40% less rapes, due to the fact that 40% of rapers of white women are black. http://library.flawlesslogic.com/rape.htm

We could cut the murder rate in half by exporting blacks who commit 50% of all murders. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data#disablemobile

C1-Slavery is Bad Because it eventually leads to a significantly higher crime rate in the Unite States.

As bad as slavery has been for blacks, it has been even worse for whites, because of the elevated levels of crime and poverty in America. We'd be better off if somebody invented a time machine to stop the Jews from taking the blacks to America.

Other harms-

My opponent may bring up several economic benefits of slavery. While I don't disagree that the Jews greatly benefited in the short term with the cheap labor, it certainly hurt in the long run. Cheap labor actually hurts technological advancement. This is one of the reasons, South America is ahead of the United States in the agricultural tech. They employ. American farmers overly exploit cheap labor, and the disadvantage is being behind technology wise, and ultimately have less power in a global economy. It's quite possible that we'd be 100 years more advanced right now if it weren't for America's reliance on slave labor.

I'd like to point out that no matter what economic benefits my opponent brings up (which are merely short term), it does not erase the...

Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-13 18:37:20
| Speak Round
nzlockienzlockie (CON)
Welcome judges to an interesting debate, and thanks to my opponent for the resolution and his opening round. 

On the surface of it, the neg position in this debate seems quite ridiculous... almost all parties, including my side of the house, agree that slavery is a terrible thing. How then can America possibly be better off now than if slavery had never happened? 
It should be noted that this is NOT a debate about whether the ends justified the means. That's a resolution for another debate. This debate embraces the sad reality of what happened, and asks, was there any good that came off it?

Due to the limited character count, I'll be keeping my points quite succinct in this round and building on them in round two.

1. Without Slavery America would have less Black people. 
This is not the negative point my opponent thinks it is. Jesse Owens, Michael Jordan, Ray Charles, Michael Jackson, George Washington Carver, Martin Luther King Jr, Harriet Tubman, Matthew Henson, Fred Jones, even Oprah Winfrey. The descendants of Africans brought to America as slaves have enriched every field of life for modern America; and even the world.  

2. Slavery gave the USA the running start it needed to gain independence, prosper and grow.
 
The rate at which wealth was accumulated would not have been possible without the cheap labour provided by slaves. My opponent claims that this is only short term and that short term doesn't matter. He's wrong. Short term matters a lot when you are trying to start a new country from scratch. Without slavery, it's doubtful that America would be in the position it is today.

3. One learns more from one's mistakes than from one's successes. 
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." - 13th Amendment to the US constitution

Vote CON.

 

Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-14 02:18:46
| Speak Round
The RedneckThe Redneck (PRO)
America is Worse Off With Black People
The U.S. is indeed worse off with black people as my stats prove from the previous round. Let's examine his argument that it is not, and see if his premises stand the ground let alone stand up to mine. Let's examine the supposedly great contributors Con mentions.

Jesse
Owens, Michael Jordan, Ray Charles, Michael Jackson, Oprah Winfrey, and Fred
Jones
athletes/entertainers who create no real value to society that isn't easily replacable with alternatives.
Matthew Henson was a free person of color. Not descended from slaves, but descended from a white guy who had a little too much fun with the colored natives in Africa. He was born from "Free People of Color", and not slaves. https://books.google.com/books?id=yGMp8K8ms10C&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

George Washington
Carver
- His inventions are actually a myth, generated by African Americans, because their history is lacking any significant contributions to society. "Most of Carver's peanut and sweet potato creations were either unoriginal, impractical, or of uncertain effectiveness.
" http://www.network54.com/Forum/256246/thread/1088896552/last-1088896552/George+Washington+Carver-+The+Making+of+a+Myth

 Martin Luther King Jr, Harriet Tubman- Black civil rights leaders, not neccesary if blacks weren't brought over to be slaves and second class citizens.

Learning From Mistakes

You can learn from other things than mistakes. You can also learn from the mistakes of others. For example you can learn from philosophy, textbooks and other peoples mistakes. It is better to avoid mistakes than to make mistakes as a learning mechanism.

Short Term vs Long Term

You can get a quicker start with a short term mentality. However just like the tortoise and the Hare. We can see the early start isn't as beneficial. It is better to get solid roots than to be the hare. The U.S had other alternatives, Such as indentured servitude. Slaves not needed for cheap labor.


Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-16 23:35:26
| Speak Round
nzlockienzlockie (CON)
Thanks PRO for that round.
I'll address his attempts at rebuttal and quickly address his first round arguments.

Without Slavery America would have less Black people
Uncontested. I'll point out that many free Americans, who, today, make up the USA, wouldn't be here were it not for slavery. What happened to their ancestors was often appalling, however THEY are better off today because their ancestors were brought to America. Since these people make up a significant minority of America - it follows that at least a significant minority of America is better off because of Slavery.

America's prison population
How I wish I had more character space! Suffice it to say that PRO has given no evidence that Negro people are genetically pre-disposed to crime. It's entirely probable that America's prisons would still be full had slavery never happened - just full of white people instead. There are numerous reasons for the racial disparity of America's prison population, and none of them have to do with actual race.

Short term gains are not the best
There are MANY better ways to start a country than slavery. But that's not the debate. The FACT is that, right or wrong, efficient or not, Slavery gave America the headstart it needed to build infrastructure and wealth, kick the French and the English out, and get to where it is today.
America is better off today, because slavery happened.

Great Black contributors
This list was only a sample. Entertainers enrich our lives, and these were among the best in the world.
Fred Jones was not an entertainer, he was a prolific inventor, ridiculously clever.
Matthew Henson was a direct descendant of another famous black american, Josiah Jones, who was MOST DEFINITELY a slave. Quite famously so actually.
PRO's own source to discredit Carver, points out that his advances were surpassed by two other scientists - Ernest Everett Just and Charles Henry Turner - both black men as well. So I'll substitute my one Black scientist for two. Thanks PRO!



Return To Top | Posted:
2015-05-18 06:16:29
| Speak Round


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BlackflagBlackflag
You can say that again. I was leaning towards The Redneck by round 2 for several reasons which I will post in another comment.
Posted 2015-05-21 22:13:28
nzlockienzlockie
Oh that's a bit of an anti-climax!
Posted 2015-05-21 09:10:51
nzlockienzlockie
I'll admit, this debate has been more fun than I anticipated it would be.
Posted 2015-05-19 00:05:40
BlackflagBlackflag
Without spoiling who I am currently leaning towards, the debate right now is pretty close.
Posted 2015-05-18 22:14:40
nzlockienzlockie
I'll say. 2000 is not many at all.
Posted 2015-05-18 10:18:47
BlackflagBlackflag
Okay, just realized there are 2000 characters and that is why your arguments are so short. I'll cut you a bit of slack since I didn't know that until now.
Posted 2015-05-18 07:43:49
nzlockienzlockie
Oh wow, this is SO MUCH harder with limited character counts!
Posted 2015-05-18 06:17:49
The RedneckThe Redneck
20 hours whew. I'm glad me going Mia didn't cause a forfeit
Posted 2015-05-16 06:01:09
BlackflagBlackflag
My real name is stag
Posted 2015-05-11 19:01:59
The RedneckThe Redneck
I am called worse than the redneck.
Posted 2015-05-11 16:51:13
adminadmin
Nah, it's really Lars. Much like nzlockie is not really called nzlockie, and you are not really called "The Redneck"
Posted 2015-05-11 14:44:20
The RedneckThe Redneck
Is admin his real name?
Posted 2015-05-11 12:17:15
nzlockienzlockie
Cool. I've already done mine so I'm good to go as soon as you are. Big ups to my man @Admin for the pre-drafting feature!
Posted 2015-05-11 11:49:58
The RedneckThe Redneck
I need to write it out, but it's basically going to say how blacks riot or commit crime and without slavery, there would be less in America and therfore less people being raped, killed and rioted. I'll write it out but not yet because I need a nap.

Oh and slavery is unethical, so we'd be better off if the Jews never caused that to happen in America.
Posted 2015-05-11 11:42:27
nzlockienzlockie
For a self proclaimed redneck you seem awfully concerned that everyone know that you're avoiding being racist.
I think that's admirable.
Now how about you stop talking and just post your round?
Posted 2015-05-11 11:08:59
The RedneckThe Redneck
I'm going to use the word nigger like 50 times in the debate. I just googled the origin of the word and it turns out it isn't racist
Posted 2015-05-11 11:03:40
nzlockienzlockie
Bring it cracker.
Posted 2015-05-11 09:48:06
The RedneckThe Redneck
Okay boy. I'm about to show you how a white man debates.
Posted 2015-05-11 08:39:25
nzlockienzlockie
Booyakasha. Bring it son.
Posted 2015-05-11 06:57:50
The RedneckThe Redneck
Oh shizznet!!! It's going down, bro.
Posted 2015-05-11 06:21:00
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